Strange Problem with Transfer Utility

twallingtwalling Posts: 145
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

I am a big fan of Genesis and the ability to transfer V4's clothes to it via the Transfer Utility. I have had almost zero trouble doing it with any model I have, the clothes convert to Genesis very well, the morphs usually work, and it is usually pretty awesome. (I should add I use Daz Sudio 4.0, I am not going to be taking the plunge into 4.5 any time soon.)

I have, however, had trouble with ONE clothing item, a very popular one called Cutoff Jeanz you can get elsewhere. I have full-length "Jeanz" from the same vendor that transfer with no trouble, but I get a weird result from the "cutoff" version.

Take a look. This is Genesis turned into Hitomi, wearing Hong Yu's bikini top, and the full length Jeanz:

Comments

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    Both garments were converted to Genesis by selecting the garment in the scene tab. Then I went:

    Edit > Convert to Weight Mapping and then I selected Triax weight mapping.

    After that, I selected Assets > Transfer and for the source "scene item" I pick Genesis, for "item shape" I pick "clone" and then "victoria 4." For the target "scene item" I pick the name of the garment, and then under "show options" I select "reverse source shape from target"

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    However, with the Cutoff Jeanz, I used the exact same steps, and THIS is the result:

    HitomiThing003.jpg
    800 x 1200 - 263K
  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    The waistline is completely caved in, inside Genesis's hip. Troubleshooting, I've made her invisible, and look at the shape of the waistline:

    HitomiThing004.jpg
    800 x 1200 - 285K
  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    It curves up into a dome inside Genesis's hip, and the waistline is extremely small.

    Does anybody have any idea why this would happen, and if there would be a way to fix it? It's probably something to do with this particular model, but I'm hoping it's popular enough that somebody not only owns it, but might have the knowhow to figure out what the error is... here's hoping, at least!

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    Here's the shorts with Hitomi completely invisible:

    HitomiThing005.jpg
    800 x 807 - 203K
  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,043
    edited December 1969

    Do they fit the default Genesis shape?

    Try using Autofit and see if the same thing happens.

    Check the scale on each of the outfits bones.

  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi twalling...

    I believe bejaymac is right... the scale of the abdomen bone is probably at or near zero. This can happen sometimes using the Transfer Utility if the original garments bones ended at the hip, but not always. Sometimes it just happens.

    You may also notice that there are extra thigh and shin bones. That's because the naming of the bones is different between Gen4 and Genesis.

    Hope this helps... :)

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    I think you two are on to something... unfortunately, all of the bones show a scale of 100%. There *is* an abdomen "bone" in the scene tab, when I select it, it has no parameters at all. (There are parameters for Abdomen 2, but not for just plain "abdomen.") There are spare thigh bones, too.

    I've tried it with autofit, it works that way, but the morphs don't transfer over with that. Is there a way to transfer morphs over to an autofitted outfit, 'cause I think this business with the abdomen begins to look tricky!

  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi twalling...

    The missing parameters for "abdomen" is most likely the culprit... you could select the menu on the parameters tab and select "Show Hidden" to see if they are actually missing.

    As for transfering the morphs... no, there is no easy way. I don't know what morphs are included with the shorts, but I would think you probably shouldn't need them with Genesis.

    If there is a morph you do want, then what I would do is load the original V4 version, dial the morph to 100% and export as OBJ, then use MLP to load the morph into the 'auto-fitted' version.

    Hope this helps... :)

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,043
    edited December 1969

    In DS4 DAZ added a keyboard shortcut to some of the parameters tabs options, so select the shorts in the scene tab and press Alt + Z to zero the figure, that might reset the hidden controls on the abdomen bone, failing that you need to select "Show Hidden Properties" in the parameters tabs option menu, this will reveal all of the hidden dials.

    In 4.5 autofit keeps the morphs so you don't need to "jump through hoops" with the transfer utility any more.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited September 2012

    I hate to add this after reading you do not wish to use 4.5 BUT. 4.5Pro now loads all the morphs for Autofitted clothing. FYI.

    Opps, I just noticed I was beat with this info.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    Ha ha... of course it does! However, I'd lose all of my GenX morphs, and I'm working on a project that has characters that use 'em, so 4.5 is right out for me.

    I've tried "Show Hidden" and there's nothing hidden in that abdomen bone... it's just completely empty, it would appear.

    What is "MLP"?

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
    edited September 2012

    would not you try to change other option of transfer utility?
    eg check off transfer morph from projection template.

    I think after saved the sceane with change triax figure and genesis,
    then try with some option.

    and which ever you check remove unused bones option,
    they often remain some bones which has no means of target figure

    (so you get some no use pare bones r thins or l thins,,etc

    have you ever seen duplicate ID erroer when you saved your transfered figure?,
    some time you need to delete the bones manually in ds 4.0.3.

    you can check the bones weight map assigned how,,
    and you can check and delete scale weight map,, select the bone in scene tab,
    I think,, if you delete scale weight map, assigend vertexs must be default scale,,
    by wieght map tool.

    weightsee.JPG
    905 x 768 - 119K
    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 12,288
    edited September 2012

    twalling said:
    Ha ha... of course it does! However, I'd lose all of my GenX morphs, and I'm working on a project that has characters that use 'em, so 4.5 is right out for me.

    I've tried "Show Hidden" and there's nothing hidden in that abdomen bone... it's just completely empty, it would appear.

    What is "MLP"?

    Morphs previously transferred using GenX will still work, just transferring new ones isn't available yet. But I'd be hesitant to upgrade in the middle of a major project.

    My Little Pony

    ETA: Just kidding, MorphLoaderPro

    Post edited by Fixmypcmike on
  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    niccipb said:
    Hi twalling...


    If there is a morph you do want, then what I would do is load the original V4 version, dial the morph to 100% and export as OBJ, then use MLP to load the morph into the 'auto-fitted' version.

    Hope this helps... :)

    It looked like this was going to work, I exported the V4 version with the morphs dialed up to 100% as an OBJ, then I autofitted the shorts to Hitomi and then transferred the morphs over to the autofitted version of the shorts. It worked, but when I dialed in the morph, the shorts reverted to the pre-autofitted shape... with the morphs applied, but still conforming to V4's shape, not Hitomis.

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    would not you try to change other option of transfer utility?
    eg check off transfer morph from projection template.


    I just tried that, but got the exact same result.


    and which ever you check remove unused bones option,
    they often remain some bones which has no means of target figure

    (so you get some no use pare bones r thins or l thins,,etc

    I don't see a "remove unused bones" option anywhere... where is that?


    have you ever seen duplicate ID erroer when you saved your transfered figure?,

    Nope!


    you can check the bones weight map assigned how,,
    and you can check and delete scale weight map,, select the bone in scene tab,
    I think,, if you delete scale weight map, assigend vertexs must be default scale,,
    by wieght map tool.

    I unfortunately have no idea what is going on there... I don't hang out in that "build" screen, though it looks pretty interesting... and somewhat scary! ;)

    I really appreciate the suggestions, y'all!

  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    twalling said:
    niccipb said:
    Hi twalling...


    If there is a morph you do want, then what I would do is load the original V4 version, dial the morph to 100% and export as OBJ, then use MLP to load the morph into the 'auto-fitted' version.

    Hope this helps... :)

    It looked like this was going to work, I exported the V4 version with the morphs dialed up to 100% as an OBJ, then I autofitted the shorts to Hitomi and then transferred the morphs over to the autofitted version of the shorts. It worked, but when I dialed in the morph, the shorts reverted to the pre-autofitted shape... with the morphs applied, but still conforming to V4's shape, not Hitomis.


    Hi...

    Yes that was most likely going to happen... the original morphs were shaped off of V4 and importing them in through morph loader has applied those shapes. ( Should have mentioned that before, sorry... :red: )

    Running items though the transfer utility to retain the morphs (or auto-fit in 4.5) does adjust them against the default Genesis to some degree, making them abit more useful, however this use of the transfer utility is a work-around and not it's intended purpose. That's why things like this can happen along with the extra bones.

    The transfer utility in 4.0 can be really fussy about only transferring morphs. Sometimes it doesn't really want to do it without transferring everything else.

    If you can't get the morphs that you want, can I suggest applying a smoothing modifier to the shorts to get a better fit to the Hitomi shape.

    Or you can try to fix the "abdomen" bone in the original V4 version of the shorts. There is probably something there that is causing the transfer utility to drop the parameters.

    nicci... :)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
    edited September 2012

    I think you have triax figure which riged and weight mapped badly but keeping original morph ,(I know you got it)
    and you have good auto-fitted triax clothing but it is without original morphs of clothing.

    I think you can transfer only original morphs from corrupted clothing ,,
    to your auto-fitted figure, by transfer utility. I think.:roll:

    source = your corrupted figure , target = your good auto-fitted figure,
    then transfer only morphs from source,,,

    I think morph is just delta of vertex movements, so it can not effect the default shape of target figure.

    I do not mean you should use transfer utility, but I answer some question,,

    1 about transfer utility extended options

    many case as you know Extended options visible , after you set source figure, and target figure,
    and select the one of general option in transfer utility tool window.

    you can choose "Remove unused bone" option by "weight maps" (general option)
    (in ds 4.5, but I remember there were same option,in ds 4.0, 3 pro, but it can not work perfectly)


    2 I understand,, but there is nothing you scare when you just tweak your figure about many tools, (ofcourse you need to save before,,)
    so try to remove some bone, manually,
    and if the figure exprode, you just delete it , and load again ^^; do not care at all!!
    no need scare anyting without save the bad status.

    window tabs>joint editor or open tool setting pane. and select joint editor (bone mark,,)

    you can remove, adjust or make new bones by joint editor,,,

    select the bone in scene tab, and on 3D view , where you want, right click>delete>delete bone

    and if adjust rigs to the figure shape, edit>adjust Rigging to the shape,,

    4 about weight map tool,,,
    window tabs>weight map Brush or select weight map Brush in tools tab.

    you can adjust or make new weight map of each node(bones)

    if you select bones on scene tab , (I recommend select node in scene tab)
    you can see bone name on weight map pane. (like a picture)

    one bone(node) has some weight maps, (x,y,z triasix, and scale, buldge,,
    but now you just think about scale weight maps.

    check, the bone name ,(in this case abdoman (not visible?)))
    then select "scale" on weight map tool pane.

    if the scale prolbem is caused from the bone, there must be scale weight map.
    or not?!!!!

    if there is scale map, and you can select it,,
    you do not need to think about "unused maps" button. now

    just select scale, ( click) then, push "Remove selected"
    exproded? ><; or??

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • niccipbniccipb Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I think you have triax figure which riged and weight mapped badly but keeping original morph ,(I know you got it)
    and you have good auto-fitted triax clothing but it is without original morphs of clothing.

    I think you can transfer only original morphs from corrupted clothing ,,
    to your auto-fitted figure, by transfer utility. I think.:roll:

    source = your corrupted figure , target = your good auto-fitted figure,
    then transfer only morphs from source,,,

    I think morph is just delta of vertex movements, so it can not effect the default shape of target figure.

    I do not mean you should use transfer utility, but I answer some question,,

    1 about transfer utility extended options

    many case as you know Extended options visible , after you set source figure, and target figure,
    and select the one of general option in transfer utility tool window

    This should work and preserve the auto-fitted shape, the only problem would be if the scaling problem of the abdomen bone has changed the shape of the morphs.

    It's worth a try... :)

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    I've just tried that, but when I tried to pick the "corrupted" figure as the source file, it does not show up in the drop-down menu as an option. The autofitted version does, but the original does not.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 1,973
    edited December 1969

    I am so sorry ,,because now I have not 4.0.3,,
    so I can not try same as you do,,,

    and think,,, have you saved the auto-fitted figure as figure or prop?

    in 4.5 we can save it as new triax figure for genesis,,so it is useful.
    it means never return default shape if you have the figure "unfit" to genesis.
    after once saved it as figure,, I do not remember if we could save it in ds 4.0.3.

    you said import the shape obj by morph loader and applied it to hitomi shaped
    auto-fitted clothing,, but if you can save the auto-fitted clothing as new figure for genesis,

    you just make morph for genesis shape by your saved obj, the figure can auto follow after you change genesis,
    with hitomi shape. ( though I think you understand already such things ,)

    and could you save the broken figure as figure or prop file? not only save as daz sean.
    because sometimes when I tweak again reformed figure by tranfer utility,
    I need seved figure for right working, not figure on the scene after transfered or just change triaxed,,

    I want to see,if you may show how bones are arranged about corrupted figure,,
    with scene tab hierarchy and 3D view,by pic.

    but many case, leave it alone for a while and challenge again ,
    you may find better answer I think.,,

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,043
    edited December 1969

    Jeez, no offence but this is like the blind leading the blind.

    Lets go back to the start and do a simple spot of debugging.

    Load your converted clothing, the one your having problems with, into an empty scene, does it load in properly or does it deform ?

    You mentioned that it converts properly with autofit in 4.0, so if it loads in properly then start spinning morph dials and see if any of those cause the issue, if it loads deformed then check each morph to see if any are dialed, or get drastic and delete/move the items Morph folder from within the data folder structure, DSF file types only (just incase you've been foolish enough to save it as a .DAZ scene file).

  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited September 2012

    Bejaymac said:
    Jeez, no offence but this is like the blind leading the blind.

    Lets go back to the start and do a simple spot of debugging.
    None taken, but I'm just new to this and it's the only error I've encountered with using the Transfer Utility.


    Load your converted clothing, the one your having problems with, into an empty scene, does it load in properly or does it deform ?

    You mentioned that it converts properly with autofit in 4.0, so if it loads in properly then start spinning morph dials and see if any of those cause the issue, if it loads deformed then check each morph to see if any are dialed, or get drastic and delete/move the items Morph folder from within the data folder structure, DSF file types only (just incase you've been foolish enough to save it as a .DAZ scene file).

    The item converts perfectly with autofit in 4.0, but unfortunately autofit only makes the clothes fit, you lose the morphs. That's why I've been using the transfer utility. I am usually able to get a perfect fit AND keep the morphs with that, but not with this one particular item.

    I really do appreciate everybody trying to help out on this one!

    Post edited by twalling on
  • twallingtwalling Posts: 145
    edited December 1969

    Just by way of update, I've officially surrendered on this one. I'm sure it's some sort of glitch with that "abdomen" bone that the Transfer Utility does not like, but it seems like there isn't an easy fix. Maybe version 4.5, if I feel brave enough to upgrade, after the GenX plugin is updated, might be the solution.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Just a up date. The AutoFit in DS4.5P now keeps Morphs. That was fixed.

  • graham jamesgraham james Posts: 41
    edited December 1969

    Before final surrender try one more thing.
    Go into the weight map editor and delete the scale weightmap from the abdomen bone.
    I had the exact same problem with a clothing I made for V4 ages ago and just tried it on Genesis..

  • kokorosenshikokorosenshi Posts: 23
    edited December 1969

    twalling said:
    Just by way of update, I've officially surrendered on this one. I'm sure it's some sort of glitch with that "abdomen" bone that the Transfer Utility does not like, but it seems like there isn't an easy fix. Maybe version 4.5, if I feel brave enough to upgrade, after the GenX plugin is updated, might be the solution.

    hey, i think i may be able to help with your issues, im pretty good at troubleshooting, if you want me to help, download teamviewer and skype me at kokorosenshi

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