V4 Skin Realims Kit in Poser Pro 2012

dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
edited December 1969 in Poser Discussion

I am not sure where else to post this, and since I bought the product at Daz 3D, I am posting here.

I still use the V4 Skin Realism Kit and it worked fine in Poser Pro 2010... I get a Magic error when I run the script in Poser Pro 2012. (Something about the Unocde Reader)

Does anyone else have it running in PP2012?

Faceoff?? can you help me?



  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 29,083
    edited December 1969

    Would you be maybe better asking in the Poser forum. I can move your query over there.

  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited December 1969

    Yes, Please, I should have posted it there....


  • Risika75Risika75 Posts: 49
    edited December 1969

    There were some changes to pythons in the new versions of Poser that made some of the old scripts not work, some vendors went back and updated their scripts, but some didn't. That was probably one that didn't get updated :(

    Good news is there is a wonderful skin script available for free, SnarlyGribbly's EZSkin 2 http://www.runtimedna.com/EZSkin-2.html, and it works on pretty much all figures :)

  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited August 2012

    Understood on the magic error..... MAybe Faceoff will do it for us. I really liked using this script as part of a workflow. I.

    I have the EZSkin2 Script and I have to say that it is a very nice tool. I am sure as I get more used to it, it will become part of my pipeline.

    With that said, and at the risk of going against the grain, I think skin is a preference... I think there are workflows to get where you want to be, and I think the quality is in the eye of the beholder.

    EZSkin2 produces some fabulous results, but I have a workflow with V4Realism Kit that produces some great results. Some things I can not get (or do not know how to get) in EZSkin2, like random spots and realistic (imperfect) displacement. That is the reason I want to get V4Realism Kit working in PP2012.

    For now, as a workaround, I can create the skin in PP2010 and save it off as a material, and then apply that material in PP2012. The lighting rig has to the same or very close to look right. This is a lot of trouble, but it worked today on several renders.

    Also when using SSS, it seems to wash out a lot of diffuse color. In the examples below, notice that the subtle light blue eyeshadow is lost in the SSS (EzSkin2) render.

    Here is a comparison.... Hair removed for speedy renders....

    Here are is a V4 Realism Kit render and then an EZSkin2 render of the same charater skin. .. No post work except Phototshop Auto Contrast applied to both renders.... You can see the V4 Realism kit has a more imperfect surface and the diffuse colors hold up better. To each his own and some would say one or the other looks better. I am trying to get the look of the V4 Realism kit, not that it is better, just what I am after at the moment.

    1080 x 645 - 116K
    1080 x 645 - 117K
    Post edited by dlm4001 on
  • fonpaolofonpaolo Posts: 229
    edited August 2012

    Remember just two things, not only Python has changed but lights, render engine and other specific material settings.

    In order to have the best results, you don't have to use Ambient Occlusion, Image Based Lights and a lot of lights.
    In fact (some may be obvious, but...):
    - use one, two or no light, setup a self illuminating environment (you could turn off "Visible on Camera" to only illuminate, not visible in render);
    - in "Render Settings" FireFly Quality" or use the D3D advanced control panel, in the "Python Scripts" panel -> "Render FireFly", use
    - Cast Shadows;
    - Raytracing (bounces 1 or 2 for reflections, more if reflection on reflections)
    - Irradiance caching 50;
    - turn on "SSS" (SUb Surface Scattering)
    - turn on Indirect Light, quality 7 (more quality, more time to render);
    - Pixel Samples at 4 or 6
    - Min Shading Rate 0,10;
    - if displacement maps are used set "Min displacement bouds" at least as the max of the displacement aplitude (0,001 in most cases);
    - check "Smooth polygons";
    - check "Use displacement maps" (if used, yes with EZSkin)
    - enable filters (post effect) with "Sinc" at 3 or "Gaussian" at 2.
    - control GC on material settings, it has to be setted on 1, but on this I can't help much, since I have Poser 9.

    I hope to have remembered correctly all the settings, I don't have Poser 9 at hand.

    This will take a little more time, but look at the results you will have!

    Oh, I hope you have updated to SR3.

    Post edited by fonpaolo on
  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the Rendering Checklist it was a[[reciated. All of these tips were applied in the renders posted. Both of these images were rendered in Poser Pro 2012 SR3 to remove differences in Renderfly. The V4 Realism Kit was ap[plied to the skin in Poser Pro2010, saved as a material and then the material used in Poser Pro 2012.

    I have been using Poser since Poser 2 and I have a pretty good handle on the Renderfly. The point was to look at the differences I was getting as a reason for wanting to get the V4 Realism Kit reworked. EzSkin is a great took, but I was getting the results I was after with V4Realism Kit. If you spend the time setting it up correctly, then the results are impressive, and allow some great crisp images for Postwork. (same advice youi gave for Renderfly ;)

    The point on preference was beautiful skin and perfect skin are not necessarily the same thing.

    The render settings met or exceeded those you listed. (Ray trace Bounce 2, IDL Quality 60 Min Shading 0.1, Irradiance Caching 60, Pixel Sample 12, Smooth Polys on) Also, Shadows, on, and Use Displacement.... I should have set the texture filter to Crisp for each material, but they were set to quality for both sets of materials (so the comparison was equal.

    SSS was enabled on both

    Three lights were used for the example. Key, fill and back. Yes I should have used a light emitting object, but the point was to keep it simple for the comparison. .

    I did use Advance Render Settings. This is probably my favorite tool in the pipeline. I ususally render several passes using this tool. IT does a great job of rendering mats and maps.

    As I take time to experirment more with EZSkin2, I am sure I will get closer to what I was getting with V4 Realism Kit (old methods) r, but I will have to write a script to add spots (or do it manually for every material, and I will have to explore the displacement maps to see how V4 Realism Kit was getting those natural; looking surfaces.. (Or maybe EZSkin2 will get an update for large and small spots (hint hint).

  • fonpaolofonpaolo Posts: 229
    edited December 1969

    Oh, a good, old Poser user, like me!
    I started with Poser 1.

    For my (limited) experience with EZSkin (the old V1 and the new V2) you can obtain a good variety of effects and skin can be "imperfectly perfect".
    You have to play with Material Room settings and allow the script to substitute the displacement image map with a shader node, so you can have much control on it.
    You can also use a couple of blender nodes with some "Noise" added, but how to setup them correctly and what kind of effect nodes, I don't remember, I have to look at it.

    I can also say that an environment (as BagginsBill EnvSphere) can give more life like effect on the skin with EZSkin applied.

  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited December 1969

    We both have been around a while....

    BTW, thanks for the tip on SINC 3 for the post filter setting, I like it better than Guassian 2..... I did not see the difference before, but after looking closely at the render in Photoshop, I like it better (again, a preference)

    Yes, I think I can emulate the spots by adding the noise nodes myself. I just need to study the V4 Realism kit nodes to see what the settings were.

    I am sure that once I work more IDL into my projects, the old light rigs I developed, will become obsolete, and with them my procedures for creating realistic skin. As most, once I have a process that works, I am reluctant to change...

    I will experiment with the Terradome and some environments I have created that use light emitting surfaces and work with EZSkin to see what I can come up with. If you look closely at the V4Realism picture, at her forehead and the top of her head, you will see the nautral looking 'imperfection' I am talking about. So far, I am only able to produce a uniform procedural dispalcement with EZSkin 2. I can create different amplitudes, and effects, but I can not get a randomly occurring displacement. Maybe I need to play with it more. (If anyone has a tip on the settings for this, please speak up).

    This morning I was able to create some skin materials in Poser Pro 2010 using V4Realism Kit, and leave out features like Fresnel, and SSS simulation, then bring them into PP2012 and apply EzSkin2 to the skin for the more "modern features", and I was very impressed. (The light has to be from roughly the same angle, but that was easy enough to do. I haddifferent size blemishes, nice natural looking procedural displacement, healthy glow, great SSS,a nd overal all realistic look. Once I get better at EZSkin2, I will probably only use V4 Realism Kit for the spots. I can probvably add them manually just as easy as set up the materials in PP2010 and import.

    Lastly, I want to be clear, I love EZSkin2.....


  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,003
    edited December 1969

    Until the script is recompiled, you can apply it in PP2010 and save as a material collection to apply in PP2012; awkward, but hopefully they'll release an updated script sooner than later.

  • edited December 1969

    dlm4001 said:

    As I take time to experirment more with EZSkin2, I am sure I will get closer to what I was getting with V4 Realism Kit (old methods) r, but I will have to write a script to add spots (or do it manually for every material, and I will have to explore the displacement maps to see how V4 Realism Kit was getting those natural; looking surfaces.. (Or maybe EZSkin2 will get an update for large and small spots (hint hint).

    Spots could added as an EZSkin 'Special Effect' fairly easily.
    I'll see if I can find time to make one soon.
    In theory you can do this yourself using my 'Nodegrabber' tool, but I haven't had time to document its use yet :-(


  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the reply.... I can see that I will be migrating to EzSkin2 and will be working with it to get the look I am after. I meant no disrespect by comparing them, both are great contributions to the community.

    ExSkin2 seems very flexible, and I am sure that as I work with it more, I will find that look I am after. My first V4 Skin Realisms Kit renders were disappointing, but after some time I learned to exploit what it could do.

    Large, small, and random spots, with the ability to set the contrast, (color intebsity), would far exceed what I have been using previously, but I will take what I can get when, you have the time.

    Thanks for EzSkin2, it is much appreciated.


  • dlm4001dlm4001 Posts: 88
    edited December 1969

    OK, I am starting to get some awesome results out of EZSkin2. I have not added the spots nodes yet, but getting the settings under control to get what I am looking for.

    However, when I add hair (i tried a couple of different ones) I am getting some blotches that look like AO blotches. I have checked the textures and None have AO nodes. I am only using two lights (IDL Studio paraboloic reflector and specular light). Neith of these have AO enabled. It has to do with incident angle, because I can change the camera, (say y rotate) by .5 and it either goes away, or moves and reshapes.

    My IDL Quality is set to 88, raytrace 1, Irradiance Caching to 88, Pixel Samlple 12, Min Shading Rate, 0.10, Cast Shadows on, SSS on.

    Anyone have aany information for me?


  • edited December 1969

    This is a known issue and is currently being investgated by Smith Micro. It's not anything to do with EZSkin specifically, but with SSS and IDL generally. The problem goes away if you switch off Irradience Caching altogether, but then your renders will take twenty times as long :-(

  • ravenraven Posts: 10
    edited December 1969

    FaceOff's V4 Skin Realism Kit has been updated to work in the latest versions of Poser, I have it running in PoserPro2012 just fine. Try resetting your download to see if you have the latest version.

  • fonpaolofonpaolo Posts: 229
    edited December 1969

    If I remember correctly, but some changes were made in SR3, with more IC you have more artifacts, so try to lower to 50 or less, pixel samples too are high IMHO, try 6 or 7, unless you're doing a blurred effect with Depht of Field..

    I'm just saying this based on my memory... so I might be wrong in something.

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