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I understand how far conforming clothing has come and I plan to continue to use quite a bit of it. For any items that are fairly close to the body, conforming clothing is much better. However, for any clothing like coats, loose shirts and dresses, and hair, it would be nice to have the dynamic option, mostly for animation, although stills are nice to work with to provide a more real-world look.
Obviously neither conforming nor dynamic is going to solve everything. The disappointing thing about Dynamic for DS is the expense to create it. If a creator was more financially feasible, I believe we'd see more options out there.
I would love for Daz to see if they could amend the agreement with Optitex to allow us to add the dynamic code to existing conforming clothing via an edit option, like the smoothing modifier. That way we at least have the option to do it if we like. Flexibility like that goes a long way and extends the very thing Daz is trying to do: sell more content. By adding such an option, I might actually buy even more items. Shudder the thought.
DAZ might want to consult an attorney then, since this definition of 'derivative work' was found to hold no water in court as of Games Workshop v Chapterhouse LLC. The law requires a degree of nontrivial similarity, and what has been revealed about the difference between coded dynamic and non dynamic would utterly fail to meet the required criteria under the law.
Further, and I could swear I've said this before around here, the shrink wrap EULA has been successfully challenged in the past, as it is arguable that the EULA is unseen until after money changes hands, and thus not an enforceable contract under US law.
I would use dynamic stuff, IF there was any for Genesis 2. nine months later, and the six outfits in the store still just dose not cut it. It looks like the pricing of the development kit, around 11k, minimum, is not the real reason, or is it.
I don't think it is the users choice to be blunt and honest. The code that runs the drape thing, almost never stops on an iteration cycle without poke-threw. The selection of stuff is almost exclusively V4 and earlier. And it dose cost allot of money. I had to get V4, V4 for G2F auto-fit thing add-on, Then the outfit (A skirt). A total of almost a hundred dollars worth of stuff, only for the thing to not quite work correctly on the generation I am working with.
I have been told that, that fifty dollar control thing can fix that, and at this point, I don't think so. You want me to use your dynamic outfits, make them for Genesis 2, lol.
As for the PA's, they get the shaft as well, because it seems that Optitex is purposely pricing themselves out of the Daz market, with many bitter feelings all around. I can only guess that is why they decided that a minimum of ten Development kit licenses and software, was the minimum they would sell to an individual. I only have one computer capable of running Daz Studio, no clue what the other nine licenses would do for me (IF I could afford that, I can't).
I think Optitex no longer wants to work with Daz and the PA's to be utterly honest. And I have yet to read anything to indicate otherwise. They make stuff for sewing machines, not CG. Nowhere on there site, dose it mention anything about compatibility of there software and Daz Studio (or Daz anything). They are based in the middle east, a region that dose not think kindly of skimpy outfits, to put it lightly.
I think the decision for the popularity of anything not dynamic, has been made for us all. I would love to be wrong, :blank:
There are quite a few free dynamic items here: http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com
And while it is mostly V4 and M4, he does have some for other models.
That being said, it's not hard to use dynamic cloth on any model really. Since it's dynamic, you just need to start with the basic V4 pose or you can simply enlarge the dynamic cloth before hitting drape. Then drape the item in a single frame. Then, move the animation head to the 30th frame, change the pose of the model, not the dynamic cloth, then move the head back to frame 1 and then drape the item in animation. Once it's done, move the animation head to frame 30 and render just that frame.
It works pretty well. You might have to target the dynamic cloth to the model and then untarget it. It has something to do with how the dynamic cloth sees the model, but otherwise, it works great. Here's the Maiden Faire for V4 on G1. I was able to even get the sash to work, which is tricky.
That being said, I have to agree with the frustration of the poor quantity of items. I'd love to see more and have even purchased a few for the purpose of animation. I'm still working on that, right now with the Little Black Dress and a Scarlett Johansson Genesis model. Very time consuming, but I'm loving the results. My animations need more work than the dress.
Who has been filling your head with poop? Bet it was people who have never done dynamics but think that it is a huge untapped market where they will make loads of money with almost no work. Heck most of the people I have seen carping about not being able to do dynamics by themselves had not even TRIED the dynamic clothing available. And frankly if they wanted to do dynamics so badly they had years to do dynamics for poser. But wait..they will say poser dynamics don't sell and give a long list of excuses why. They may be able to drum up more excuses for why poser dynamics don't sell but the reality is that dynamics are niche and niche always has limited sales.
And as far as that big investment goes.. There were multiple offers to work with Martin and they were not interested. Keep in mind that Martin has worked with some of the biggest designers in New York over the years so he is very good at not just what he does but dealing with people who have strong opinions about how something should look.
They are in Israel and while yes there are some very conservative Jews very conservative religious types everywhere including the US. I do know however that the management there has changed at some point due to retirement but past that I don't have any information. I have never read or seen anything to indicate that they suddenly hate DAZ.
For the circle skirt.. I would put her in a seated in the air position in about frame 10 so that her legs are moving up to that position and then back down as the drape progresses and the fabric has a chance to slide back down. You might even consider having her rotate slightly forward as well so that the fabric falls forward and down. Or if you did have the added part (which goes on sale half off all the time) then I would just have the internal pressure high enough to billow out the skirt half way through then turn it back down so that the fabric falls. I suspect that was what I did for my promos.
My biggest issue with the skirt, with the static image drape. Is that it is flawless for like 9 of the ten cycle-things it goes threw, then it stops on the tenth with poke-threw in random places. If I could just tell the built-in Studio thing to stop the step before the last one, I would not have a poke-threw issue.
A somewhat beg as well, is there any way to shorten the skirt a tad, just a tad (not quite as short as the second pic, somewhere in between). Or would making an Opacity map be the only way? I have doubts of how it would look with drape running the full skirt, with only part of it there in the render. Is there a longer version as well, like the longer skirt in that other pic?
If I knew anything about animation, I would just have her actually landing from the leap in that one shot.
It is super rare that I run a static drape. I tend to like things just how I want them and I am more than willing to fiddle with things all the way through a drape to get it where I want it. And with a time line you can always just back up a couple of frames to where it was "perfect". What I would really suggest is that you do a static drape after she has moved a bit then a couple of more time line drapes after that to give you a couple of options for which one looks best. Best of both worlds as your doing most of the draping with static and just tacking a couple of extras on the end to get more choices.
I don't know why they could never sort out scaling. Perhaps because they think to "real world" and scaling clothes on a human is just not part of that world. The only thing I know to do (because I never got the knack for scaling the clothing that some people have) is to rescale other things in the scene up so that the dress is smaller. So longer legs make the skirt look shorter etc. That said I really think your on the right track with a trans map with this skirt. There are plenty of things I would say not to try it with but this one actually should work alright with that because there is very little chance of self collision where the transparency would be.
so learning animation from scratch. This is going to be a long week of study, possibly longer.
If I scale up the scene around the skirt, wont that make her waist bigger then the skirt waistband? That part seams to auto-fit fine. It was mentioned in a few places that dynamic clothing needs the hem-lines edited to fit different figure shapes for some items like shirts (Excluding this skirt for obvious reasons). I tried a few items from the other site, and had seen exactly what they were talking about, perfect fit on V4, and the wrong shape for plane G2F. V4 shirt on Olympia6, yea right, lol.
I'll try the opacity map then, it will make tiling shaders on the skirt a tad more interesting (Yet to try either of the tile shader things I own).
The longer skirt, to say the ankles, and not dragging on the ground (not saran wrap, something much looser)? I'm not seeing anything under Optytex here at daz, and I don't recall seeing anything at the other site either (Even for generations I don't have and can't use at all before V4)? Your circle skirt, with the skirt part made longer would be perfect.
"O" that was the other thing, now that I try using some of the stuf from that other sit (NOT the circle skirt), again. The Instant I go to pose the figure, the clothes stay in space-time where they first loaded into the scene, and draping from there has some results I cant quite Post, lol. It only works in the T-pose at world center.
If I fit-to the figure, the item twists into a pretzel, again I cant post that... or can I.
That Circle skirt is the only V4 thing that Dose Not Do This, that I have. ???
Everything from that other site that I have tried thus far, fails like this. :ohh:
(EDIT; And it gets worse, Apparently that is G2F with only LY Sloan texture applied, Not even a off shape figure. The "quick Start" DUF in the Sloan folder dose nothing, oops.)
Seriously, lol. What is she doing to that V4 shirt, and how worn out are those V4 shorts. :coolhmm:
And I think the Morning shirt woke up on the wrong side of reality, it's a new style, lol.
I think this is what happens when you take a G2F pose, and try to force it onto V4 joint rotations. It Dose Not Work.
Did you drape the clothing first in the character in the default position first? If I do that, I don't have a problem with the draping later. If I try to drape to a posed figure before doing the default position, I get all sorts of headaches.
Here's the Maiden Faire Dynamic Dress on Dawn. I also included cells from an animation movie I did to show how this works. I've had absolutely no poke through with this method, but the key is to start in the default V4 position or, like I did here, scale the dress up a tad, like say no more than 10% extra. The character in the cells is Genesis with a custom V4 character that I converted using GenX, so I have a lot going on and I've been happy with the results. You wills see a dark square in the frame, something I fixed by moving it .001 below the floor after I did the movie. I had to put a box primitive under Genesis to get the dress to pool on the floor as it's just a plane and Dynamic clothing needs more substance than a plane to collide with. Other than that, it seems to work fine.
Also, something I have done if you are only wanting stills... You can get to the final frame, freeze the clothing in that frame. It will stop being dynamic at that point. You can then 'fit' it to the model and make it conforming if poke through is still an issue.
I wish my drape attempts had worked that well months ago, when I had argued with Khory about how the V4 stuff was not working on G2F, even with ALL the V4-for-G2F adapter things. And she was correct about her Circle Skirt. I can move the figure anywhere in the scene, pose the figure, then hit drape. And the skirt dose not turn itself into a ball, or implode like that morning shirt did. the drape thing just wants to stop on a cycle with poke-threw more often then not.
As for this animation thing, and my falling asleep at the keyboard at this point. I haven't a clue what I'm clicking apparently. Started at a T-pose, and ignored the dress being in the figure, just hit drape. I saw something about making frames as the dress fell almost correctly on the figure. hit the lower part of the (As You Wish) pose set, and hit drape again, and it appeared to do nothing???
I must be to tired at this point, and have no clue what to click to do anything with animations. there is tutorials for that somewhere, isn't there? That will say what to click to do what?
Why is this dress not moving with the figure like the circle skirt dose. I need sleep, night y'all.
(EDIT)
And happy holiday y'all.
Alright, challenge accepted. ;-)
Here's a step-by-step using the Little Black Dress Strapless version. It was actually easier than others I've done and didn't have any of the issues you are showing when I did it with my process. I'm not saying other processes out there would work just as well if not better, but this works for me and seems pretty tried and true.
For clarification sake, I learned most of these techniques off of YouTube. Someone, can't remember who at the moment, posted a video of how to drape V4 clothing on a Genesis 2 Female and I've basically used that format for the animation portion. I did add the single frame drape first and that helped even more.
So, here are the steps:
1) Place your figure in the scene and add everything you need. I added some shorts and top for discretion purposes only. Then place the dress. You can either do this without G2F selected or not. I did it without. I used G2F with Pressley and Nordic Hair. I then 'Fit to' Genesis 2 Female. example01.png
2) I reselected 'Fit to' and choose None. This is necessary for the Dynamic Clothing to understand that I want to drape the dress on the G2F model. If I leave it 'fitted' it will never work well. If I don't fit it and then unfit it, then it will basically just drop to the floor. example02.png
3) I clicked 'Collide with...' and deselected G2F's hands and head and deselected the Hair, Top and Shorts. Since the shorts are for modesty purposes only, I won't need them in the final render, so no need to collide with them. You could though, but you'd need to scale the Little Black Dress to 110% to get it outside the items. It does work though. You will also notice that I have it set to 'Single Frame' in the Dynamic Clothing Panel. This is important as we'll change that later. example03.png
4) Click 'Drape'. This is what you should get after it finishes. Since there aren't sleeves, it won't show a ton of changes, but that's not the purpose here. I turned off the top and shorts to show the dress properly on the figure. example04.png
5) Now, to begin the animated drape so we can get a great still image. Select the Timeline and your G2F figure. Move the yellow triangle to the 30th frame. That's not 30 seconds, but a total of one second since we're at the default of 30fps (frames per second). You'll notice the dress doesn't follow the model, but it's not supposed to yet. We haven't told it to drape to frame 30. I've selected a simple V4 pose, but you could use any pose, even a G2F one. I selected this one to show even with G2F's posing issues with old V4 poses, the dress still works. What's important is posing it only in frame 30, no where else. Das Studio will animate the figure from our default T pose to this pose over the course of 30 frames, something the dynamic clothing needs. example05.png
Since I'm limited to five (5) attachments per post, I'll finish this in the next post. To be continued...
Okay, we're getting close to done.
6) Now, move the animation head (yellow triangle) to the first frame. Once that's done, in the Dynamic Clothing Panel, change the Single Frame to 'Animated'. This is VERY important. Also, you might have to select the Cloth Item or you will get an error reminding you to do so. Now, Click Drape. example06.png
7) Here are some examples of the process to see it actually working. Remember, you only hit 'Drape', but the timeline animation is playing to show you how it's coming along. It will finish at frame 30, so we won't need to do anything else. example07.png, example08.png, example09.png
And we're done. I removed the top and shorts for the final example. You're ready to render your still image. Just remember to render the 'Still Image (Current Frame)'.
If you want me to show this process with a different piece of clothing, please let me know.
One more quick note. If the item is still having poke-through, here's the steps to make the dress a conforming item. One caveat: This requires the full Dynamic Clothing plugin. I don't think you can do this with the free version.
1) Select the dress and in the Dynamic Clothing Panel, click the sub-menu icon and select Freeze Simulation. Once you do this, it will no longer be a dynamic clothing item, so you can't re-drape it or animate it any further. It basically turns into a static model. example11.png
2) Now, select the dress in the Scene Panel and click the sub-menu icon and select Edit -> Apply Smoothing modifier. example12.png
I've also included a final render. For clarification sake, I did a G2F pose to get a better look.
Khory, I distinctly remember one of the free items at OptiTex's site having a “Style” option for something. I was in a way hoping the Circle skirt had such. How difficult to impossible, or easy is it to add those options to an existing product, as possibly an add-on product? Or would that require going back and rebuilding the product from scratch with that planned for from the beginning?
When you had mentioned scaling, I was thinking Daz Studio object size thing in the parameters tab under transit and rotation, not the auto-fit part, sorry. That is curious that software that can supposedly take a patron for say straight-leg-slacks, and re-size them for different inseam and waist measurements for real people, and it cant make an auto-fit-clone for different figure shapes? In a way, given how complex the both of them are (program coding wise), I can understand it not being supported for a product that is not there primary business.
I do not know to what extent that scaling thing effects a Daz figure outfit auto-fit, tho I think I am beginning to understand why newer outfits are not as common with the requirement to make a complete cloth-patron for each figure shape, given the demand by Daz/Community to support most if not all of the current Daz Original shapes?
I have yet to try sending a dynamic item to Hexagon to reshape it and back to Studio, as “I am Sure” it will not keep it's dynamic properties, if it is even dynamic at all after the attempt.
A situation that does not seem pleasant and desirable, unless there is no other option.
Outside of using scaling in the Parameters -> General section of the dynamic cloth, there is very little else you can do. Once you drape it, it reshapes back to 100% automatically. By scaling it, it allows you to fit it to models that might have different measurements than the V4 character. With the extra scale to it, if it hits a model before getting to 100%, it stops and maintains a .001" distance from the model it collides with.
As far as having multiple lengths on a skirt, if it wasn't built into it to begin with, you can't add it. Only the OptiTex software can do that. Originally it was stated that all dynamic clothing would be specific to the model it was designed for. It's only recently that we've found we can use newer models with the same clothing with the extra steps we've added. The reason for it is how the clothing is modeled. It's not modeled like a typical OBJ file. Each model is more like a seamstress setup than just a general 3D shape. If you select the sections tool and go over each section on the clothing, it's quite interesting. Instead of joint zones like a typical conforming clothing item would have, you have patterns that look like they came from an actual real-life clothing pattern. In fact, that's how it is made. The main reason is it designed to find flaws and such in real situations, so the patterns have to be done that way. That's also the reason for the rarity and high cost of these items as well as the high cost of the software.
So, outside of doing manual adjustments to your clothing by manually adding dynamic clothing code to it, there's very little we can do personally. And since you can't sell anything with manually added code, outside of personal use, that's pretty much the end of it.
You can't. It will change the properties of the item and it will no longer by dynamic. It will also lose it's fabric pattern style zones.
What the program does is resize the pieces to the new size so that they can be cut properly. So the size 4 that was the "test" is then converted to all the new sizes to fit different people. And sure the program could resize the pieces to fit each sized character. But as with clothing then you would need a new piece in each size. Not one object but a dozen. In theory they would all use the same texture maps but it would still be how ever permutations of the piece.
You are correct. There is some step in there that makes the clothing dynamic and exporting as an object would nuke that.
Perhaps for now. Eventually a PA or other third party will pull together some new way to do dynamics. But let me be clear, who ever does it will have done it as much out of love and kindness as out of income potential. And when they do do it there will be a huge flurry of dynamic clothing. The things first out of the gate have the potential to make decent money. Then very soon sales will drop and then the volume of products will drop and well.. We will be just about where we are right now.
As I try to go threw the first five steps with my first cup of coffee, What I'm reading in the email notices is somewhat disheartening regarding wanting Dynamic Skirts to work with. I have no desire to become a PA, nor do I want to be making clothing, tho. This is beginning to sound like I have no other choice.
At the very least, Thank you MacSavers for the introduction to just what that $50 control panel actually dose, that the free one dose not.
On to step 2 I think, I lost track of where I was, lol. The coffee hasn't soaked into the brain yet :coolsmile:
I've found that before I do the single frame drape, after resizing the item, I try to get the sleeves to match up with the arms as best I can. That seems to do the best.
Of course, all this talk has made me want more Dynamic Clothing and since the V4/M4 is on 80% off if you buy a punchable item, and I wanted to get the Flirty Hair for G2F anyways, I added the Peacoat to my order.
Stop it. You guys are making me spend money. LOL
I take it you already got ALL of the free stuff from
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/
Dose it give you the same issues on G2F that I'm having? pretzel cloth, wad-balls, and what-ever that is, lol.
(EDIT)
Where is that scaling thing for the dynamic cloths you were referring to?
If you are getting pretzel cloth or wad-balls, just click the 'Fit to...' option under Paramaters -> Misc and choose none. You just need to fit to the model the first time. After that, you remove the fit to and it goes back to normal.
The reason you need to fit to the model is to have the Dynamic Clothing panel know which cloth is colliding with which model. Once you've fit to, you can fit to none and the DC panel remembers which model to deal with.
Now, if you are doing V4, then you don't need to unfit it. This is only for G1 and G2F/G2M.
If you tell me which item you are having issues with, I'll be happy to test it. You can also tell me the model and pose and if I have it, I'll test it.
When you load the clothing into the scene you need to observe if the majority of the body is inside the clothing. If arms are above it or below it or sticking out from odd parts of the top then its going to not be able to figure out the collision. Just like if any part of the body intersects with another part (finger tips in hips for example) the program starts to freak out trying to figure out what is inside and what is outside.
So looking at your picture with the flare dress I would want the dress moved down in space till her arms are coming out of the arm holes before I did any draping at all. I do a static drape in frame one after that to get things to fall down a bit then move to the animated drape to get the fabric shifts to happen.
O.K. major discovery! I had never tried the transit on the Dynamic stuff, because it dose Nothing for non-dynamic cloths.
Transit Dose Work With Dynamic Clothing.
Translate works because the item isn't conforming. Once it's been unfit to the model, you can 'Translate' the item, 'Rotate' the item and 'Scale' the item. They are work.
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php
Page 1 "FlaredDress (.DAZ)" (Working on now with tutorial.)
Page 1 "MorningCoat (.DAZ)"
Page 1 "SummerShort (.DAZ)"
Page 2 "StraplessDress (.DAZ)"
Page 8 "TubeTop (.DAZ)"
Page 9 "Kimono Sleeves Shirt (.DAZ)"
etc, then gave up and went to bed, lol.
(EDIT)
I never tried that Boyfriend Sweater, as I'm guessing that is an upgrade only, If you can find the original to upgrade? The only thing there that is newer then V4.
(EDIT2, oops. There is another V5 item there somewhere possibly, A "V5 Dress Genesis"? The zip on my drive is dated 14may2014, so no idea if it is still at the site, or what it is called there)
Autofit is for conforming clothing only. It will NOT do anything for dynamic clothing. That's because dynamic clothing was originally designed for specific models only and they stated that it was not designed work on any models that the item wasn't designed for.
So, outside of the work arounds we've done to make it work, you are out of luck. They never designed it to work the way we are doing it.