Cararra * Pro Bug Ridden?

bdproductionsbdproductions Posts: 40
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

I once had the most utmost of respect for Cararra. I now understand why people laughed and scoffed when I told them that I was going to use Cararra for a feature presentation. It seems like the m ore technical I became, the more of a headache Carrara became. After spending five years getting optics, advanced trigonometry and other sciences and disciplines under my belt, I just knew I was ready to make the transition from CG illustrator to CG animator with no serious problems. Before going any further, I must add that I had my graphics workstation custom built specifically for graphics work and gaming (see specs below) .I made several unfortunate discovery's about Cararra (8 pro) that I hadn't expected.

To make this boring story quick and to the point, I began working on a music video in November of 2013. From creating detailed story boards to pre-testing simple animations on characters I created, I began planning the event in May of 2013. However, by mid February (2014) I began to realize that what I was attempting to accomplish with Cararra was going to be next to impossible. After creating detailed sets, I started the process of animating the objects and characters in my scenes. NLA clips would stop working and had to be reloaded from My Clip library (or lost data altogether), as well as Cararra being unable to import BVH files were just a few of the problems that began to disrupt my progress. The more complex my animations and scenes became, the more problems I ran into. I did quite a bit of preprocessing by downsizing texture maps, consolidating texture maps into a single texture map, decimation of high polygon objects used for background and the list goes on. Two years ago I had similar animation issues. I contacted the techs at DAZ and was given a new updated version of Cararra 8 pro. I was told that (paraphrasing) the version I had was bug ridden. I cleaned out my computer in August and reinstalled Windows 7 along with Carrara and the rest of my programs in preparation for my first big project. I downloaded an update for Carrara 8 pro from my DAZ account, and have had one problem after another.

I've stuck with Cararra every since I began using it back in 2005. After this last serious disappointment, I regret not taking the advice of professionals to move completely to Blender or invest in the Maya 3D Max program. After spending several years building sets, characters and props in Carrara, I have no choice but to take a few weeks to master the Blender interface and processes if I expect to keep my Halloween movie short deadline. I was able to get a thirty second ad completed and uploaded on my 5 Dragon Clan YouTube page. I had one hell of a time just getting that completed. I became excited once I saw the final results of the ad and the praise I received from my how investors about how professional and technical the results were added fuel to my enthusiasm.
In closing, I have come to believe that Cararra is no where near a professional solution for animation. This could explain why some of the production companies that used it in some of their earlier works have never used it again. Cararra is an excellent program for creating simple animations and elaborate illustrations, but complex animations I don't think its capable of handling. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but this was the only way I could release some of the extreme frustration and discouragement the has built up over the last six months of hell I have just emerged from.


My Computer Specs:
OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model X58A-UD3R
System Type x64-based PC
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz, 2661 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F1, 12/28/2009
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 24.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB
Available Physical Memory 10.3 GB
Total Virtual Memory 32.0 GB
Available Virtual Memory 25.5 GB
Page File Space 16.0 GB
Graphics Card: NVIDIA Quadro

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Comments

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Looks like a fine machine you have.
    Oh man, don't be sorry... I am sorry to hear about your bad fortune. I started with Carrara 8 Pro beta in 2010.
    I don't make my own characters though. I really like DAZ 3D's line of figures, being my strongest pull into using Carrara, as I feel it's the best animation tool around for using content like this. LightWave is a lot less that Maya, and your system would likely rock it to no end!
    But LW doesn't seem to be (from asking those that have it) content friendly. But nor does anything else, except Poser and DS, which aren't modelers.

    Anyways, I have run into some troubles along the way, but usually find a way through it. I really want to use Carrara's dynamic hair, but I still haven't got it working well enough for my animations - stills look great. But animating my DAZ content, to me, is a real treat in Carrara.

    No... I'm not offended. I know that I am known to defend DAZ 3D and Carrara to the end. This is different. I know that there are many professionals out there using Carrara for animation work. But I can see how it might just not be for everyone. I met a fellow here who was immensely annoyed at the lack of current software right-click and keyboard options that he was used to, coming from many modern software apps. He switched to Modo, which was an investment he tried getting back by selling his license. He then switched to C4D and was happy. He claims that you can use content in C4D, but after seeing some of the comments related to that subject... not for me. I'll stick with Carrara.

    But we're all different.

    I wish there was a way that we could meet up in a nice room with both of our machines, everything we need for our productions, and had like, a week or more to just jam out and compare notes. I do feel strongly that I could help you to love animating in Carrara. But, who knows... you might be able to prove me wrong on the first day - so we'd have to buy LightWave, C4D, 3DS Max, or Maya, and check out ways to do your production in that.

    A lot of this stuff gets harder, the more complex we get. Any of these 3d animation apps have a lot on their hands to do. I just keep the hope that my buddies at DAZ 3D software development will push this bad-boy to a higher level - even if I have to pay them more to get it.

    Anyways....

  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 459
    edited April 2014

    Let us know how you are getting along with Blender.

    Not sure what you mean by complex animations, but even superbly skilled 3D graphic artists who have done animations professionally all of their lives find animations challenging, scratch their heads and even throw their hands up in the air. That's why most 3D movies are done with teams these days. No one person can know it all or do it all.

    Post edited by Design Acrobat on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Just checked out your video Martial Law/Art of Life and Death again. Very cool.

    One thing I could add... to this thread, at the sake of sounding like a resounding broken record...
    Ever since I've added Dogwaffle Pro: Howler to my workflow, I've found animation to blossom into an entirely more manageable experience, since we can use it to layer our animations together in many ways, and add effects to them. Sometime we can bog down our renders, crash our computers, and just have a down-right horrible experience, when we try to render everything all at once.

    I've taken it upon myself, not having access to any formal training, to watching special features videos that have anything to do with CG animation production, and I've learned that nobody does it all in one render. They just cannot. So they use After Effects or similar, perhaps HitFilm 2 Ultimate, I use Howler to add clips together, add animated visual effects... and I can even make animated footage and bring it into Carrara and render my animations over it.

  • bdproductionsbdproductions Posts: 40
    edited December 1969

    True, true sooooo true. I have started creating three layers for animation One layer for the back ground, one for a middle ground and a third for the foreground.

    Thanks for the complement. It took thirteen hours to render ten seconds of that ad. To render the entire four minute video, it was going to take 117 hours to render.

    Just checked out your video Martial Law/Art of Life and Death again. Very cool.

    One thing I could add... to this thread, at the sake of sounding like a resounding broken record...
    Ever since I've added Dogwaffle Pro: Howler to my workflow, I've found animation to blossom into an entirely more manageable experience, since we can use it to layer our animations together in many ways, and add effects to them. Sometime we can bog down our renders, crash our computers, and just have a down-right horrible experience, when we try to render everything all at once.

    I've taken it upon myself, not having access to any formal training, to watching special features videos that have anything to do with CG animation production, and I've learned that nobody does it all in one render. They just cannot. So they use After Effects or similar, perhaps HitFilm 2 Ultimate, I use Howler to add clips together, add animated visual effects... and I can even make animated footage and bring it into Carrara and render my animations over it.

  • bdproductionsbdproductions Posts: 40
    edited December 1969

    Yeah Dartanbeck, being able to vibe and work with another creative brainiac suvh as yourself would truly be marvelous . I fell in love with DAZ studio when I first saw it. But DAZ doesn't contain particle engines and such. After a while, I wanted to be able to create my own characters and content and DAZ, with all of its fabulous features and content, wasn't going to let me do that. I feel the same way about VUE. I used VUE for a few years, but Cararra has been the only program that had so much possibility and flexibility at an affordable price. I have always loved Cararra and believed that it was capable of some great things. I have done some pretty fantastic things with Cararra that made the jaws of Maya 3d users drop. I'm just upset that I didn't make an important deadline because of the issues that kept popping up. Thanks for the pep talk though. It was much appreciated!

    Looks like a fine machine you have.
    Oh man, don't be sorry... I am sorry to hear about your bad fortune. I started with Carrara 8 Pro beta in 2010.
    I don't make my own characters though. I really like DAZ 3D's line of figures, being my strongest pull into using Carrara, as I feel it's the best animation tool around for using content like this. LightWave is a lot less that Maya, and your system would likely rock it to no end!
    But LW doesn't seem to be (from asking those that have it) content friendly. But nor does anything else, except Poser and DS, which aren't modelers.

    Anyways, I have run into some troubles along the way, but usually find a way through it. I really want to use Carrara's dynamic hair, but I still haven't got it working well enough for my animations - stills look great. But animating my DAZ content, to me, is a real treat in Carrara.

    No... I'm not offended. I know that I am known to defend DAZ 3D and Carrara to the end. This is different. I know that there are many professionals out there using Carrara for animation work. But I can see how it might just not be for everyone. I met a fellow here who was immensely annoyed at the lack of current software right-click and keyboard options that he was used to, coming from many modern software apps. He switched to Modo, which was an investment he tried getting back by selling his license. He then switched to C4D and was happy. He claims that you can use content in C4D, but after seeing some of the comments related to that subject... not for me. I'll stick with Carrara.

    But we're all different.

    I wish there was a way that we could meet up in a nice room with both of our machines, everything we need for our productions, and had like, a week or more to just jam out and compare notes. I do feel strongly that I could help you to love animating in Carrara. But, who knows... you might be able to prove me wrong on the first day - so we'd have to buy LightWave, C4D, 3DS Max, or Maya, and check out ways to do your production in that.

    A lot of this stuff gets harder, the more complex we get. Any of these 3d animation apps have a lot on their hands to do. I just keep the hope that my buddies at DAZ 3D software development will push this bad-boy to a higher level - even if I have to pay them more to get it.

    Anyways....

  • bdproductionsbdproductions Posts: 40
    edited December 1969

    By complex animations I mean several NLA tracks assigned to several characters in one scene. I created a scene in that contained five actors doing different things. Once I begin to load additional figures into the scene, the data in the NLA clips of one character nullified the data in other (as if Cararra couldn't handle this task). I had a character ( V4 morphed figure) that was supposed to sing and dance. Instead of sing when she was supposed to, her head ballooned. I turned the NLA track off that contained her lip sync and all was well (except she didn't sing). I reanimated the lip sync sequence (an additional 7 hour task with no talk designer) only to have the same issue happen again. A few days ago I created an animation with motion paths. I had five motion paths in one scene and tried to add a sixth motion path only to have two of the motion paths thrown completely out of sync (one ended up 3000 feet from its original position and the other in the opposite direction). The larger the scene (or more complex/detailed) the more I notice problematic issues. I often have to export elements from a complex, heavily detailed, scene, and reanimate them in an empty scene because Cararra will crash or hang when I try to move the scrubber to a designated time or key frame. I have come up with so many workarounds to issues that I have experienced it's ridiculous. Before I installed the update of Cararra 8 Pro, I didn't have many of these issues.

    I have become quite proficient with animating from scratch. I understand how frustrating animation can be, but when the problem is compounded by silly glitches and mishaps that make absolutely no sense, that's when frustration turns to contempt, and well..I guess you get the idea. Thank you for your suggestions, they were taken to heart and appreciated.


    Let us know how you are getting along with Blender.

    Not sure what you mean by complex animations, but even superbly skilled 3D graphic artists who have done animations professionally all of their lives find animations challenging, scratch their heads and even throw their hands up in the air. That's why most 3D movies are done with teams these days. No one person can know it all or do it all.

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I met a fellow here who was immensely annoyed at the lack of current software right-click and keyboard options that he was used to, coming from many modern software apps. He switched to Modo, which was an investment he tried getting back by selling his license. He then switched to C4D and was happy. He claims that you can use content in C4D, but after seeing some of the comments related to that subject... not for me.

    Hm.. haven't been here for many moons now. Just popped in, to look for old friends. And stumbled across this one. The story is somehow familiar :)

    >but after seeing some of the comments related to that subject... not for me
    I wonder what those comments might be.

    I am a programmer, and am currently writing plugins, for C4D, these plugins make the DAZ Store doors wide open. So that C4D can take full advantage of the DAZ characters and stuff.

    If you really have (influential) friends over at the DAZ factory, can you please tell them to improve the FBX export function in DAZ Studio? The DAZ Store plus DAZ Studio plus an improved FBX export will expand the DAZ Store market significantly, I can promise you.

    Main issues are: Wrong export of transparency / alpha for Genesis characters. Eye lashes and skin tones become opaque and "plastic", a lot of tweaking needed in Cinema 4D.
    Then, the environments, like the ones from Stonemason, have the Y axis (Z axis in Carrara) messed up, so that building parts float and hover over the ground.
    Here is an example of using Stonemason in C4D, the errors I mention have been corrected:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y4oP1nk744

    and here is animation done in C4D, using stuff purchased in the DAZ Store:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhj1PuTXKps

    and here is my last (literarily my very last) animation made in Carrara
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iMzEcOmm7U

    -Ingvar

  • LinkRSLinkRS Posts: 138
    edited December 1969

    My Computer Specs:
    OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
    Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 24.0 GB
    Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB

    Available Physical Memory 10.3 GB

    Howdy,

    I can't speak to the issues you have mentioned in Carrara (my first version of Carrara is 8.5), but I did notice an issue with your computer. You are running a consumer-oriented version of Windows, but have 24 GBs of RAM installed. If you notice in your specs it lists "Installed Physical Memory" and "Total Physical Memory" and they differ by 8 GBs. That is because Windows 7 Home Premium only supports a maximum of 16 GBs of RAM. You have 8 GBs of your memory not getting used. If you want to use it, you will need to upgrade to a more professional edition of Windows. Unfortunately, (depending on your POV) it is very difficult to find upgrades from Windows Home Premium to Professional anymore, as Microsoft will suggest you go to Windows 8 Professional. Good luck!

    Rich S.

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,215
    edited April 2014

    Some other options to consider that will support your scene & content assets:
    I really like the animation (collada .dae) of Vue best. DAZ dae and fbx import (and export) fine and I also can use IClone/3dExchange to create complex scene animations then export out as .fbx use UUW to get it to .dae. Also when moon and stars align certain versions of Poser will transfer entire scenes into Vue similar to the GoZ interface however you can edit keyframes in Poser and it instantly updates in Vue. Vue animates with a strong node based keyframe & graph with including weather and material animation and has network render farm capability. Morphs must be baked into the collada.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • bdproductionsbdproductions Posts: 40
    edited December 1969

    I'll keep that in mind, thanks


    LinkRS said:

    My Computer Specs:
    OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
    Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 24.0 GB
    Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB

    Available Physical Memory 10.3 GB

    Howdy,

    I can't speak to the issues you have mentioned in Carrara (my first version of Carrara is 8.5), but I did notice an issue with your computer. You are running a consumer-oriented version of Windows, but have 24 GBs of RAM installed. If you notice in your specs it lists "Installed Physical Memory" and "Total Physical Memory" and they differ by 8 GBs. That is because Windows 7 Home Premium only supports a maximum of 16 GBs of RAM. You have 8 GBs of your memory not getting used. If you want to use it, you will need to upgrade to a more professional edition of Windows. Unfortunately, (depending on your POV) it is very difficult to find upgrades from Windows Home Premium to Professional anymore, as Microsoft will suggest you go to Windows 8 Professional. Good luck!

    Rich S.

  • argus1000argus1000 Posts: 701
    edited December 1969

    ingvarai said:
    I am a programmer, and am currently writing plugins, for C4D, these plugins make the DAZ Store doors wide open. So that C4D can take full advantage of the DAZ characters and stuff.Ingvar

    That would be much needed. Do you have a release date for these plugins?

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,215
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:
    ingvarai said:
    I am a programmer, and am currently writing plugins, for C4D, these plugins make the DAZ Store doors wide open. So that C4D can take full advantage of the DAZ characters and stuff.Ingvar

    That would be much needed. Do you have a release date for these plugins?
    Just in comms w/ Okino on this topic, Indicate they can gen up a custom FBX importer/exporter for just such circumstances. Price was reasonable for professional grade utility.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    ingvarai said:

    and here is my last (literarily my very last) animation made in Carrara
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iMzEcOmm7U

    -Ingvar

    Hi Ingvar!
    Why leave Carrara?
    Notice that you don't seem to have the 'floating off the ground' issues in this, but in you're C4D animation, the feet never touch ground! ;)
    Gotta give ya somthin', right! I am the Carrara defenderite, after all! :)

    Yeah, the 'comments' I was referring to are those that deal with the difficulties of using content, hence the need for your programming skills. After spending a few years figuring out how to fix things to work in a game, I wanted to give all of that a rest. Just tired of fighting. At first, when I discovered that I needed to correct shaders for everything content related, I was almost upset. But the tutorial I've found on the matter was a quick solution, and so it didn't bother me at all. I ended up actually liking the idea of checking through each and every shader to make them better.

    C4D looks impressive, don't get me wrong. But I don't wish to fight for compatibility. Life is too short for that.

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    Why leave Carrara?
    Notice that you don't seem to have the 'floating off the ground' issues in this, but in you're C4D animation, the feet never touch ground! ;)
    ...
    But I don't wish to fight for compatibility. Life is too short for that.

    Hi Dartanbeck :)
    I left Carrara because of the very animation you quoted.
    It took me 2 months to make. In short - it is the Time Line in Carrara that slowed me down so much that I started looking elsewhere.
    Carrara is very powerful, and actually, I like the Carrara renderings even more than the C4D counterpart. It is all about the user interface (Well mostly, it was). And - the ability to program extensions (plugins) in C++ for C4D was decisive.

    The floating off the ground applies to complex environments, like the city environments from Stonemason (excellent work BTW) and others. Don't forget to tell DAZ ;) And it is not apparent in the three links I submitted, because I corrected for it (video 1)

    The customization of the shaders, in order to swap alpha and transparency channels, and to get rid of the "plastic skin" on Genesis, is a onetime operation. In C4D you do it once, store the changes, and apply them with a mouse click the next time you import a Genesis Character.

    See my other post, and reply to argus1000, regarding "But I don't wish to fight for compatibility".
    C4D vs Carrara is mainly a financial issue. Very few need / want C4D, unless you make a living out of 3D, and can add the C4D investment to your per hour tariff. A lot of people who do multimedia, and occasionally do 3D, would be perfectly happy with Carrara. It integrates beautifully with match moving apps like SynthEyes. And when you understand the shaders in Carrara, you miss them when moving to C4D.
    -Ingvar

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    argus1000 said:
    ingvarai said:
    I am a programmer, and am currently writing plugins, for C4D, these plugins make the DAZ Store doors wide open. So that C4D can take full advantage of the DAZ characters and stuff.Ingvar

    That would be much needed. Do you have a release date for these plugins?
    Send me a PM with your e-mail address.
    I might need some beta testers.

    If you don't know - you can use Daz Studio and export your Genesis characters (with animation!) to FBX, and they will open and play out of the box in C4D. No compatibility issues whatsoever.
    The problem arises when you want to apply one of the zillion BVH animations out there. Then your newly imported Daz character gets crumbled and move in the most ugly ways.
    My plugins will do a lot of things regarding this - plus a lot more. Rigging etc.
    I hope for a release this summer.
    The plugins will be released on the domain datareflector.com (Not on the air yet)

    And the main focus is: Carry out operations in minutes, not hours. Hours, not days. Days, not weeks. Weeks, not months.
    The world is full of people spending their time doing tedious work, instead of being productive. I detest doing repetitive work, that is my main focus and driver - to do things once, and reuse it many times.

    -Ingvar

  • Erik HeyninckErik Heyninck Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I used C4D in a previous life. A life with death lines and lots of black coffee, etc etc.
    This was around version 8 or 9, so I can't compare with what it offers now.
    I liked it, but at the time, the only way to really use it was to invest another $1000 in plugins. Plugins for the simplest of things, many of which I now find implemented in Carrara.

    I'm not saying anything negative about Maxon as they are helpful and care much more about their C4D than DAZ does about Carrara.
    But Cinema is a money circus. Before you've seen the show, there's an upgrade, which, usually, you have to pay for. In those days, their own 'advanced render' didn't have two thirds of what Carrara now offers, and that for about one thirtieth of the price. People tried to add VRay to Cinema. The price tag is not comparable with a 3d party renderer for Carrara.

    My problem with Cinema was/is that it always could do too much, except what I wanted to do with it. I had to learn too much to do basic things. And if I wanted particles, I had to buy the thinking particles module. Or the mocca module. Or...

    To use Poser content, I needed Kuroyume's IPP plugin. Paying, of course.
    Edge extrude? a plugin.
    etc etc...

    But modeling in Cinema, when you have the necessary plugins (I'm speaking of what I have, and remember) was easier than in Carrara as the tools were more intuitive and the toolbox was larger.
    I guess it must now have become a super softie (thanks for that word, Dartanbreck) but it is beyond my financial means and the time I want to invest to learn it.


    I sincerely wish you a lot of success with it! It is a class higher than Carrara, and merits to be taken more seriously as it is still the outsider, the challenger of Max, Softimage and Maya. And, perhaps, Modo.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for that input, Erik. That's also some of the comments I was referring to earlier. I just can't remember all of what was said to sway me... beyond the already high price tag. Not saying the price is unfair, though.

    Ingvar, shadows are a great way to see contact, and the second video the character's feet never really make contact, nor do the letters. Maybe it was supposed to be like that? I don't know, but it doesn't look right like that.

    Anyways... once you bring Genesis into C4D, do you still have access to all of the morph dials, including the pose dials, like Head/Neck Twist and Bend, and such? Or do you have to set that all up first, then export?

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    And if I wanted particles, I had to buy the thinking particles module. Or the mocca module. Or...

    The times, they are achanging.. (© Bob Dylan).. all of this is now built into C4D.
    Yes, it costs money, a LOT of money. And it is stable as a mountain. And it has a user interface which I regard superior to any of the hundreds of applications I have installed on my multimedia machine. There is also a ggrowing 3rd party plugin market.

    But the price is mostly an issue only if you don't earn money using it. If you use it professionally, a plugin that costs 200$ is no issue, if it a) Enables you to give your customer what your customer wants, b) Saves you hours of work.
    In many of the discussions regarding software in general, and 3D applications specific, I miss people taking into consideration to what extent their work is of the non-profit kind, vs paid work.

    -Ingvar

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    Ingvar, shadows are a great way to see contact, and the second video the character's feet never really make contact, nor do the letters. Maybe it was supposed to be like that?
    It is by design. If you look at cartoons (this is a cartoon rendering) they normally do not cast shadows. I also rendered it out with shadows, but used the non-shadow render. It is for my nephew, who is 6 years old, and I was in a hurry to get it ready for his birthday :)


    Anyways... once you bring Genesis into C4D, do you still have access to all of the morph dials, including the pose dials, like Head/Neck Twist and Bend, and such? Or do you have to set that all up first, then export?


    When exporting from DAZ Studio, you decide what morphs to export.
    In C4D, you then have access to, and can animate, all morphs you decided to export.

    There is a catch - there has no purpose to export morhps that alter the size / scale of the skeleton, like the age morph. Because, while the shape indeed will be morphed, the skeleton will not, so it serves no purpose when you start animating your character. So you end up exporting mostly facial expressions, which works very well.
    I reaiterate: Genesis exported from Daz Studio to FBX and imported into C4D works out of the box! Including clothing, shoes etc.
    Making hand morphs is very easy in C4D, and you can store them for reuse, on the next character you import.

    > like Head/Neck Twist and Bend, and such
    Yes, but four these things I would create the morphs directly in C4D. Or just keyframe the whole thing.

    -Ingvar

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Wow. That's cool to know. So there IS another modeler out there that works with content. Not easy to find. So far C4D and Carrara are the only two that I know of. Yeah, it doesn't bother me if scaling morphs don't work, and I also think it's cool that you have the ability to decide with morphs to send along. Very cool.

    Thanks for the update, Ingvar!

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I also think it's cool that you have the ability to decide with morphs to send along. Very cool.

    Yes, it is not very intuitive to do this in Daz Studio, but once you learn it, it works very well.
    You can also export Collada from Daz Studio, which C4D also will read, but FBX is a notch better.

    I post a to the C4D forums, and try to make them pay attention to the DAZ Store. If only DAZ could open their eyes for this market!!! It is a pity that Stonemason and the others often do not have FBX as an option, so that we C4D users can omit DAZ Studio when purchasing stuff. I am a Platinum memer in the Daz Store, because of the sheer number of intereseting stuff there.

    And I hope DAZ can improve on the FBX export from Studio!

    -Ingvar

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    I've recently heard that the reason FBX is such an iffy format, is that each app that uses it supports it differently, or something strange like that. It's not a consistently used format? I'm not good with any of that junk. I just want to get in a play! ;)

    So how do you like the rest of C4D? Like the interface. Did you buy a bunch of extra plugins to get it to work?
    I am collecting all of the plugins for Carrara. Eventually. But Carrara and its plugins are all a lot less expensive, to be sure! I guess I'm really lucky to be so happy here, in Carrara!

    I consider the DAZ developers my buddies... but I have absolutely no pull (that I'm aware of) in asking them for stuff. I have my own list of things that I would like to see in Carrara. So I don't want you thinking that anything like this will happen because of me! LOL

    DAZ Studio gaining Alembic export support is huge news for me. DAZ does pay attention to formats that attempt to make all software more compatible. They may make DAZ Studio, continue development on Carrara, and sell Bryce and Hexagon, but they are very cool about not caring what your preferred software is. DAZ Studio, as a matter of fact, is becoming a very powerful tool to be used in between nearly anything you wish to use, which I think is very cool - especially considering that they're working on Carrara to be more and more compatible with it. So I'm hoping that non-content users still get their wishes answered... but on the same token, I'm grateful that they will undoubtedly be making our content connection even stronger within our circle.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Ouch... Ouch!!!
    Wow... I was just checking out C4D Studio, the top-notch version. Wow.. three and a half thousand US dollars! That's... Ouch!!!

    It's funny when we go comparing prices, because we see that Carrara Pro has a price tag of five hundred fifty, minus a few cents USD. It's almost never actually sold for that though, since the way DAZ is, everything is almost always on sale. Heck, just to check the price now, I noticed that, being a PC member, it's only 153.99 USD for me. OMG... what a HUGE, HUGE difference.

    That's one tenth the price of LightWave, which is very, very competitively priced, whereas, it seems to me, but I am very much an outsider... but it seems to me that C4D is the other way... a bit over priced. Quite a bit. But that's just my opinion, again, as a person walking past the window, thinking it looks cool, so I check under the box to see the price.

    I must say that before I would consider spending that much, I would be doing a lot of research on all of the other software packages first. And I can almost guarantee that C4D would not make it's way into my home. Not at that price. I've checked out some of the features, and while it does look sweet... LightWave looks better to me - and Carrara works better for my needs than LightWave. Funny how that works.

    Ingvar,
    None of this is directed at you. I remember our conversation well, and for you, needing a totally different work style... that is worth a lot. Maybe not that much for me... but if it works for you... bravo. Like I said, it does look impressive. The idea that it can work with content might actually be the clincher for me that could change my current perspective, toss it into the cart, and buy it. Truly. Working with DAZ content means a lot to a one person work force - and if C4D allows it... that would be a major draw away from anything that doesn't - for me.

    Thank goodness that Carrara is owned by DAZ 3D, though. Yeah, I get upset at the lack of input in the forums by the development team. Development is much slower on Carrara, and those that work on it are not allowed to post any info... but the price is fantastic. Beyond fantastic... is ridiculously cheap, because what it does is mighty!

    I'm really grateful for the interface. So Ingvar and I really got into it... he hated it! Remember that?

    I did my best to keep him on our team, but he really needed a different interface - a more modern, pro-3d feel. I commend him for sticking to his guns, trying out Modo, and finally ending up with C4D. In my opinion, the software that you direct in is the most important part of the whole thing.

    So I'm really glad that I started my animation work in Poser. While I liked the controls' shapes and icons, I couldn't stand how huge they were. To get into Carrara and see them very much the same, but tiny... Oh my... I love it!

    I love modeling and texturing in Carrara. So much so, that any other app I'd ever try from here on out would have to really be impressive to steal me away. So I understand that this might not be that hard in the modeling department. But Carrara's shader system is just so cool! Add to that all of the cool plugins that I have so far, and those I've yet to obtain... and then to jam out a great render in seconds... how can Carrara cost so little? Because DAZ 3D just considers it another tool to let their customers have at the usual great deal, which helps them to work with the real bread and butter of DAZ 3D, which is exceptional 3d figures and their support items.

    Working with DAZ 3D's figure is a dream come true for me. Genesis came out and, while I loved it enough to collect nearly everything that came out for it, I still couldn't imagine myself moving away from my V4 and M4 characters that I painstakingly worked into shape over several years. Genesis 2 comes out and forced my hand to switch! LOL

    They're just too good. So there is a good set of reasons for me being so defensive towards DAZ 3D and Carrara. At these prices, Carrara might just as well be free. Would I pay more for more development? Sure. Will I consider dropping Carrara due to its lack of development and company communication? Possibly. But right now, Carrara is treating me well. Adding the incredibly inexpensive Project Dogwaffle Pro: Howler to the grand scheme of things, especially with its new Animated Brush Keyframer, I am feeling like I can produce some really pro-quality animations and have a whole pile of fun along the way.

    Wow... am I still typing?

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've recently heard that the reason FBX is such an iffy format, is that each app that uses it supports it differently, or something strange like that.
    Yes, you have a point there. If I had time, I would read me up on the docs, and make an utility to make FBX files "C4D friendly".


    So how do you like the rest of C4D? Like the interface.
    Since you ask - I just love it.
    Especially the time line and animations, is a different world. And scalability. Even large projects load in seconds. Layers worth to mention, you can easily hide everything except the objects you currently are working on.


    Did you buy a bunch of extra plugins to get it to work?


    I mostly only use the C4D plugins I write myself ;)
    Those days are gone, where yo need external plugins for normal stuff to work. C4D makes itself more and more independent on external plugins, to the frustration of some plugin-writers I assume..
    It also supports scripting in Python, for those who do not want a compiled language.

    Ouch... Ouch!!!
    Wow... I was just checking out C4D Studio, the top-notch version. Wow.. three and a half thousand US dollars! That's... Ouch!!!

    You can feel lucky, living in USA.
    Here in Norway, C4D Studio, which I own, costs atround 50,000 NOK = $8,366
    That is including 25% VAT, which I can get deducted because I have a company.
    This is a one time cost. Upgrades cost around $ 1000.
    Software is extremely expensive here, and is often (always) adjusted in accordance with the average income level in the country in question. Some years ago, I could benefit from this, simply downloading software from USA. For large brands, like Maxon, Microsoft, Adobe etc, this unfortunately is not possible anymore.

    Here Dartanbeck, I just uploaded this video for you, it is part of a project I made one year ago.
    I did purchase a plug-in for this, cost $40, it is the one that scatter the 2012 into pieces. It can be done in C4D without this plugin, but not as good as with it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVWkz27GE8

    Regarding the other things you write - I ended up with C4D because is is the most versatile and the most powerful 3D application that suits my needs. I broke the bank when purchasing it two years ago, but have never regretted it.

    -Ingvar

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Wow... very nice! That walk cycle thing in C4D looks really powerful! Is that what you've used?
    I'm so glad you're happy in it. That render is smooth... very nice. You know, I shouldn't talk about comparing software according to the promos. Look at Carrara. The ads for it don't tell you squat compared to what you can do with it.

    I may look closer into this package.

    Oh... and I was curious, have you tried the dynamic hair in it? I should search YouTube. I looked at the video on C4D Studio web page regarding dynamic clothing, and they shown the clothing being made, but never a sim of it dynamically in action. If all of this stuff works really well... it might just be a great deal at that price.

    There was more stuff that I really liked.

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited April 2014

    That walk cycle thing in C4D looks really powerful! Is that what you've used?
    Glad you liked it! Yes, in this case I used the walk cycle. But for most purposes, the walk cycle is not an option, mocap and BVH is.


    Oh... and I was curious, have you tried the dynamic hair in it?

    Yes I have, and it works very well. A ton of settings you can tweak. I understand perhaps 5% of it.

    I should search YouTube. I looked at the video on C4D Studio web page regarding dynamic clothing, and they shown the clothing being made, but never a sim of it dynamically in action. If all of this stuff works really well... it might just be a great deal at that price.
    You won't find much C4D animations on YouTube. C4D is mainly used for flying logos, motion graphics etc. I have the impression Maya and also 3Ds max is preferred for animations. I have tried to convince the folks in the C4D groups that Cinema 4D is great for animations, provided they start using the DAZ 3D store.

    Anyhows, show up in the dedicated C4D groups, for more info. Like the C4D Cafè.

    Here is an animation I made today. Very simple. I just dressed up Genesis in Daz Studio, using default clothing and gear. Merged two animations, and exported it all as one FBX file. In C4D I imported the FBX file, added hair with a few minor tweaks, added this softbody ball, the plane and the text. And rendered it out as an image sequence. Then I rendered it all for YouTube, in Sony Vegas. Sony Vegas is my favourite video DAW. Hence the title of my YouTube account. All in all, with music edited, about 1 hour work.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO75Wg6dbzU

    And don't expect me to post much here, after all this is a Carrara forum.

    -Ingvar

    Post edited by daz3d_9ff14f0c17 on
  • argus1000argus1000 Posts: 701
    edited December 1969

    ingvarai said:

    If you don't know - you can use Daz Studio and export your Genesis characters (with animation!) to FBX, and they will open and play out of the box in C4D. No compatibility issues whatsoever.

    That's great news. I had tried to import FBXs from Daz Studio before with C4D r12. It imported only the BVH skeleton, not the figure. Now I just downloaded the C4D r15 demo and it works perfectly. I guess Maxxon has greatly ameliorated its FBX importer. Not only can you import animations, but facial animations as well. From iClone too. I'm floored.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,273
    edited December 1969

    HI Ingvarai :)

    good to see you again,. but kind of sorry you're moving on,. yet, at the same time, glad you're making progress.
    I hope the plug-in work goes well, and everything else you do.

    don’t expect me to post much here, after all this is a Carrara forum

    If it's of interest to carrara users....why not,. :)

    All the best,.
    Andy :)

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited April 2014

    3DAGE said:

    If it's of interest to carrara users....why not,. :)

    Hi Andy! :)
    Nice to see you again!
    I started with Carrara in 2008, and used it very much the next 4 years. Thanks to all the help I got in this forum, especially from you, I really got to understand the 3D world.
    And thank you for the kind words and wishes!

    Yes, I hope that programming plugins for C4D will generate some income for me. I am a programmer, and have several other projects too.
    But first and foremost I am an environmentalist. I live on the countryside in Norway, and literally feel how nature is damaged these days.
    So I will use multimedia, Cinema 4D and all the other applications to document what is going on. I also have plans for an Internet Channel, I hope to go on air this year.

    Here is a short 2 minutes video I made for you guys here, so that you can see one use of 3D applications, which probably is not mainstream. What Cinema 4D can do, is to load topographic DEM data. These data for Norway recently became available for free. Combined with aerial photos (not Google satelite images), I can make 3D landscapes. Which I can fly through. And these landscapes are real.

    The excavator at the end of the video, is entirely C4D. The word "Verdiskaping" on the excavator's arm can be translated with "Wealth creation", which is the common excuse for damaging nature.
    I will also use characters, animated characters, later on.
    All footage is filmed by me.

    Enjoy this video compilation, I compiled it for you:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5WHzXcdIGM

    And yes, I will look into this forum now and then, be sure!

    -Ingvar

    Post edited by daz3d_9ff14f0c17 on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Wow. Nice job. Sad.

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