Carrara 8.5 and autofit

araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
edited September 2013 in Carrara Discussion

Two of the items I tested didn't show significant pokethrough. Here are the rest. Renders done with Genesis smoothing set to 1.

Edited to add: CMS was not installed during these tests which may have affected the results. I had no reason to suspect that CMS is needed for autofit to be fully functional in Carrara. DAZ Studio does not need it.

Longshorts from Toolboi, Michael 5 shape

Post edited by araneldon on
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Comments

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    M4 Pirate shirt, Abomination

    pirateshirt-abom.jpg
    640 x 480 - 24K
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    M4 Pirate shirt, Michael 5

    pirateshirt-m5.jpg
    640 x 480 - 19K
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    Shorts from Woodgod, Abomination

    shorts-abom.jpg
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  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    Shorts from Woodgod, Michael 5

    shorts-m5.jpg
    640 x 480 - 18K
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited September 2013

    Underwear from Toolboi, Michael 5

    underwear-m5.jpg
    640 x 480 - 16K
    Post edited by araneldon on
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    Vest from Woodgod, Abomination

    vest-abom.jpg
    640 x 480 - 19K
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    This'll be the last one for now at least.

    Cowpoke shirt and pants (K4), Michael 5

    cowpoke-m5.jpg
    640 x 480 - 20K
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Okay, like I said in the other thread. I can't wait to get home and try this stuff for myself. I don't really have time for this, but I do need to know.
    If Auto fit is broken, like you've shown it to be in the other thread, I'm not really sure what my reaction will be. I defend this stuff to the bitter end - I really hope that it isn't going to go messing me up now.
    As for some of this poke through, just for kicks, try one of two... perhaps both, things:

    A) Genesis Actor node - See the "Smoothing" sliders above in the Instances Tray? Try turning "Modeling Level" to 2 along with Render level.
    They default it this way, I think, to keep it from bringing less powerful computers to a halt upon Genesis load. What it does is provide the SubD for Genesis. At it's default, it will use the SubD for rendering, but not on the model - meaning not in the Assembly Room view.

    B) Try rendering it. (See notes below "A")

    Often times the poke through will disappear in the render because of the smoothing notes above.

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited September 2013

    These are renders with smoothing at 1. Increasing it to 2 didn't make a considerable difference.

    Also to clarify my position: I realize that pokethrough is pretty much inevitable. The point of this is to demonstrate that it is a significant issue and therefore we need to be able to edit converted content with the vertex modeler.

    Post edited by araneldon on
  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited September 2013

    Okay, I had started a thread a while back regarding C8.5 and CMS issues. That thread was about various poses that did NOT work UNLESS the CMS was running.

    As DAZ has made the claim that C8.5 did NOT have to the CMS running any longer, I thought this was an important issue. As no one else posted I figured either no one was interested or I was the only one having this problem.

    As with many software issues, when there is one thing that does not work, it could be an indication of other problems - as yet undiscovered.

    I have just tested the Auto Fit. With CMS running – the choices for garment type DO appear. WITOUT the CMS running, the choices for garment type do NOT appear.

    For my test I used the Genesis Basic Male and loaded the pants from the M4 business suit.

    I really wish that DAZ would actually test their software and STOP making unsubstantiated claims about how their software performs.

    Post edited by kakman on
  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited September 2013

    Thanks kakman, I suspected CMS might be the culprit.

    So now the question is why? Does autofit in DS also need CMS?

    Post edited by araneldon on
  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    araneldon said:
    Thanks kakman, I suspected CMS might be the culprit.

    So now the question is why? Does autofit in DS also need CMS?

    Doing the same test as above - the answer is NO - Studio lists the garment type choices with or without the CMS running.

    As to why, well that is a much larger question and one that I am continually asking myself over and over again regarding too many issues to recount here.

    The easy answer is that appears, to me, that DAZ must just really enjoy estranging their users and content providers.

    Their insistence on shooting themselves in the foot on a continual basis, simply confuses me to no end.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Oh my god I am exhausted!
    And then I get home to test this thing, and garment options did NOT appear. Talk about making a cranky man crankier. To assist in this fresh, new attitude of mine, I decided to, once again, uninstall all of my Genesis stuff and reinstall it again. Same.
    So, clever me... uninstall DS and all of my Genesis content and install again. Still. I only tried one garment tht always auto-fitted for me before, and I have not tried this with Genesis 2 Female yet - I really don't wish to break my innocent Workstation over all of this.

    Is the DAZ Cheerleader finally finished with Cheering for DAZ?
    Is he so upset that he's gonna ask for his 8.5 Pro money back?
    Will this mean the end of Dartanbeck as we now know him?

    We'll see. I truly hope that a DAZ official gets online and says something regarding and update in place on this stuff. Between what my daughter is going through right now and then coming home to this... I...

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Just to be sure, CMS is 'on' by default, when DS is installed, right?

  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited September 2013

    Oh my god I am exhausted!

    This is the most important line of your post. You are exhausted, and with good reason. Take it from someone who puts the “anal” in analytical – step back and take a break. Cuddle up with Rosie and relax.


    And then I get home to test this thing, and garment options did NOT appear. Talk about making a cranky man crankier. To assist in this fresh, new attitude of mine, I decided to, once again, uninstall all of my Genesis stuff and reinstall it again. Same.
    So, clever me... uninstall DS and all of my Genesis content and install again. Still. I only tried one garment tht always auto-fitted for me before, and I have not tried this with Genesis 2 Female yet - I really don't wish to break my innocent Workstation over all of this.

    It is not your workstation. Because of you I did a “clean install” using the DIM (but only for Studio, C8.5 and the Genesis & Genesis 2 content), and you know the issues I have been uncovering.


    Is the DAZ Cheerleader finally finished with Cheering for DAZ?
    Is he so upset that he's gonna ask for his 8.5 Pro money back?
    Will this mean the end of Dartanbeck as we now know him?

    NO, NO and NO!

    We'll see. I truly hope that a DAZ official gets online and says something regarding and update in place on this stuff. Between what my daughter is going through right now and then coming home to this... I...

    Don’t hold your breath on this one. DAZ_Spooky has never even come back to give me an example of what material preset works by highlighting the “Actor” line and double-clicking.

    You and I have some fundamental differences in what we find acceptable from DAZ and their responsibilities regarding their software. As you know I find them to be disingenuous and all too comfortable making specious statements and then refusing to own up to it. They frequently just move along.

    Possibly, one of the reasons that you are so forgiving is that you don’t have enough experience with truly dedicated software professionals. I know that you do see it sometimes; Fenric is a fine example of how it should be done.

    I have been trying to get you to take a look at Bluff Titler for some time now. This is a truly amazing piece of software with a fantastic community. A LIFETIME license for this software is less than $65.00 and its capabilities are astounding. It is so much more then just a 3D titling program!

    Maybe, once you watch the discs I sent you and you see it in action – you will be interested. Keep in mind that the sequences I rendered in Bluff Titler took less than ONE MINUTE each to render!

    Post edited by kakman on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    araneldon said:
    These are renders with smoothing at 1. Increasing it to 2 didn't make a considerable difference.

    Also to clarify my position: I realize that pokethrough is pretty much inevitable. The point of this is to demonstrate that it is a significant issue and therefore we need to be able to edit converted content with the vertex modeler.

    But what I meant is, like some have pointed out; Smoothing on just the render side will make it look like poke through - because it's only showing the smoothing effects after the render. Ahhh... but, like you've said, these ARE renders... gotcha. Genesis loads in with Smoothing on the render side at 2, model at 0. Either way... it's really too bad that they don't give us a way to either:
    A - expand in all directions just by a fraction at a time
    B - edit the mesh as it is, with it's current state of morph following in play

    Too bad.
    I'll wait a bit and see if they have anything to say on this.

  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Just to be sure, CMS is 'on' by default, when DS is installed, right?

    As I understand it - YES!

    Also, as a side note I have also found that for some clothing items, Studio does not automatically initiate the Auto Fit dialogue. It simply loads the item all “borked”. You then must select the offending item, right click on it and initiate the Auto Fit dialogue.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    kakman said:

    I have been trying to get you to take a look at Bluff Titler for some time now.
    Are you sure? I only recall seeing the name one other time - in that last e-mail. Perhaps you've mentioned it and I gazed past it unknowing of what you were referring to?
    Hmmmm. I'll have a look.

    So... I'm slightly confused.
    No, No, No, but yet non of this will be fixed?
    Please explain why No should mean No?
    You must realize... I am not a wealthy person, and Cheer-leading doesn't pay, yet it takes a lot of energy!

  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited September 2013

    kakman said:

    I have been trying to get you to take a look at Bluff Titler for some time now.
    Are you sure? I only recall seeing the name one other time - in that last e-mail. Perhaps you've mentioned it and I gazed past it unknowing of what you were referring to?
    Hmmmm. I'll have a look.

    So... I'm slightly confused.
    No, No, No, but yet non of this will be fixed?
    Please explain why No should mean No?
    You must realize... I am not a wealthy person, and Cheer-leading doesn't pay, yet it takes a lot of energy!

    This is my point. Right now you are drained. This is not the time to make a sea change to your overall approach and philosophy.

    I agree, that cheerleading for DAZ might be misplaced (and sometimes misunderstood by folks like me), but many times it is much appreciated and can be a great stress reliever.

    You know how I feel about how we spend our time and energy. I think it is most important to reserve this for people that do appreciate the time and effort it takes, and that do more than simply pay “lip service” to it. If their actions continually show that it is NOT appreciated, then it IS time to move on.

    Please be secure in knowing that there are a great many people here, including myself, that truly appreciate your grace and generosity. That is the Dartanbeck that I know and that is why I say NO – this is NOT the end of “Dartanbeck as we now know him”.

    And from what I have seen from you and have gotten to know about you - you are a VERY wealthy man indeed, very much like George Bailey in "It's A Wonderful Life".

    Post edited by kakman on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Okay now I'm blushing.
    Say, I just went to that BluffTitler page. Whew! Pretty cool stuff! I'll have to look deeper into when I can. I need to take your advice now and go have Rosie snuggle me to sleep. Hey K... Thanks man... really appreciate the support and kind words.

  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Okay now I'm blushing.
    Say, I just went to that BluffTitler page. Whew! Pretty cool stuff! I'll have to look deeper into when I can. I need to take your advice now and go have Rosie snuggle me to sleep. Hey K... Thanks man... really appreciate the support and kind words.

    10-4

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited December 1969

    Oh my god I am exhausted!
    And then I get home to test this thing,

    Seriously dude, chill :) Okay so maybe it's got some kinks but this ain't the end of the world, or anything. Save some energy for more important things.

    It's weekend; let's just wait at least until Monday and see what DAZ has to say about this.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Alright now...
    I'm never going to be able to sleep if I don't set the facts straight here.
    Do I truly want Genesis (Triax) support for Carrara in the 8.5 Pro purchase I've made?
    Yes.
    Is Auto-Fit a huge part of that?
    Yeah... absolutely!
    Is Genesis Support for Carrara my only reason for buying (and loving) the 8.5 Pro release?
    No. Hardly.

    I was one of those whom fell under the PC Member, Previous Carrara Owner class, so I got the huge discount. That was a truly small pittance to pay for what I consider to be the absolute BEST version of Carrara ever. However:

    Do I feel that ALL of the issues that Kakman, araneldon, Silene and others have been reporting should be fixed and delivered?
    You know... DAZ poster boy that I am, I do. At least to the expectations we've been led to believe with the product information given. I have huge respect for the development team, and I know that they can make this right. And I hope that DAZ has them do so.

    Now I am wondering if Kakman is using the DIM.
    He reports that having CMS running gives the proper selections within auto-fit. I get all of the figure shapes I have in the upper box, but none of the options for style of item that it is - the lower box. I have uninstalled everything and reinstalled everything using DIM to prove the wonders of the tool - as well as a way to keep my Triax stuff up to date. I installed and ran DS 4.6 Pro (not the beta, this time) so CMS should be running. I still have no lower box selections. I'm not sure I've looked over everything I should have that may be at work here, But now I'm wondering if the DIM might have had something to do with it?

    I can no longer go back to build #204 due to S/N expiration to test if it's the official release or not. So....
    Now we need DAZ intervention.

    If I can find the time tomorrow, I'll see what I can find out on my end. If not tomorrow, it'll certainly be soon.

  • de3ande3an Posts: 907
    edited December 1969

    I can no longer go back to build #204 due to S/N expiration to test if it's the official release or not.


    I never uninstalled the 204 beta version, and it still works for me. It just took on the serial number of my paid-for 8.5.0.243 release version.
    Have you tried it?

  • kakmankakman Posts: 224
    edited September 2013

    Alright now...
    Now I am wondering if Kakman is using the DIM.
    He reports that having CMS running gives the proper selections within auto-fit. I get all of the figure shapes I have in the upper box, but none of the options for style of item that it is - the lower box. I have uninstalled everything and reinstalled everything using DIM to prove the wonders of the tool - as well as a way to keep my Triax stuff up to date. I installed and ran DS 4.6 Pro (not the beta, this time) so CMS should be running. I still have no lower box selections. I'm not sure I've looked over everything I should have that may be at work here, But now I'm wondering if the DIM might have had something to do with it?

    I can no longer go back to build #204 due to S/N expiration to test if it's the official release or not. So....
    Now we need DAZ intervention.

    If I can find the time tomorrow, I'll see what I can find out on my end. If not tomorrow, it'll certainly be soon.

    I AM using the DIM. I only NOW use the DIM for Genesis and Genesis 2 content. I did use the DIM for a clean install of Studio Pro 4.6 (the release version), Carara 8.5 (the release version, software only – no content) and the Genesis and Genesis 2 content. I always laugh at the DIM acronym, as I feel it is quite apropos for many of the things DAZ has done lately.

    Now, I KNOW that you KNOW this but as you are not at your best right now, you can certainly check the Win 7 task manager to check on the CMS. Also, the Smart Content tab in Carrara (as well as Studio) will inform you if the CMS is not running.

    I just double-checked and I AM getting the Garment Type selections drop down (the lower box) in both Studio and C8.5.

    So I do not believe that the DIM is doing anything incorrectly during the installation process.

    Step away! Do not make me call Rosie and have her revoke your computer privileges.

    Get some rest, my friend. You both deserve and NEED it.

    Post edited by kakman on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    LOL! Sold! ;)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Couldn't stay asleep. For what it's worth, Rosie told me I could 8-/

    Here's how to make it work, if the Auto-Fit is giving you the grief of not showing you the garment fitting option in the lower drop box:
    First of all, I have to say that I turned off the DAZ Content Management Service a while back during the beta testing... a long while back. Can't remember why, it's just an unnoticeable little service keeping track of any DAZ Content changes that are made so that it's there when you need it.

    So when I reinstalled Daz Studio, I simply assumed the CMS would come back online as it does the first time you install DS. Evidently DAZ preferences or something must remember your choice and leave it off line. It's really easy to bring back on line if it's not.

    To figure out if it's on in a Windows environment, go to Task Manager (right click on the bottom task bar of your window) and look under "Services" because you won't see anything for it under processes or applications. It's name is: "DAZContentMangementService" and it's description is: "DAZ Content Mangement Service", so it's easy to see if it's on. Remember, Services, not processes or applications.

    If you do not have it running and you have installed DIM, it should be easy to turn back on. If you're running 64 bit Windows, look under Program Files (x86) > DAZ 3D > DAZ3DIM1, and open the folder named "cms" and run the application that's in there. That will install CMS for you with a dialog to let you chose where it runs and where it stores what it wants to remember. That's it!

    32 bit Windows should be the same drill except just look in Program Files without the (x86) part.

    I'm fairly certain that, if you already have it installed it will be running under services. My Anti-Virus/Firewall will allow me to disallow any program from running, and so does yours. So if CMS is not running, but it's installed, perhaps you've blocked it in such a manner. It should be easy to get it back online. If you don't remember how to do it within your Firewall, try going to Program Files > DAZ 3D > Content Management Service and running "ContentManagementServer" which should fire up your Firewall app asking what you want to do. Tell it that you no longer wish it to block CMS.

    At first, when I went back into Carrara after doing all of this, it still didn't work. I opened and closed DS and it still didn't work. I opened DS and loaded Genesis and Auto-Fit and item from a different generation. Yup... that did the trick! ;)

    To help illustrate, Here is M5 Superhero wearing M3's Lone Wolf by Luthbel; M4's Kavaro Hair, by Neftis; Standing on FlipMode's Mountain Trail with a Winnston1984 Foggy Environment in the surround:

    AutoFitLoneWolfM3.png
    800 x 1200 - 1M
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    As you can see, there are some slight issues with the fit. The hair is not conforming, but prop style, so it was easily scaled to fit and it auto-parented as it would on M4 with a double click. The skin is Jeremy that came with the Carrara M5 Bundles and I had very little work required of the other shaders. Aside from just the simple loading the stuff up and trying a bit to tweak it into place without performing any special tasks, like opening the modeler... I just added the lighting, background and trail, turned on the Linear Workflow via GC=2.2 with indirect lighting and there it is. Oh, and the pose came with Carrara 8.5 too. Nothing in this image required Pro - though that's what I use. At least I don't think I used Pro Only features....

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 15,386
    edited December 1969

    Oh... btw,
    Thank you for the fix, Kakman!!! Now I owe You!

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 704
    edited September 2013

    Thanks for taking the time to figure this out Dart and kakman. I'll redo the conversions after I've got this sorted, and if it should turn out better I'll make a note of it here for future reference.

    Post edited by araneldon on
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