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Object with glow & IL

EleleElele Posts: 1,097
edited March 2013 in Carrara Discussion

Hello,

is there a way to have an object with glow in the shader, but not have it cast light (when indirect light is turned on)?
Doesn't really have to be glow, i just need the object to be pure white and not have it cast light.

Thanks,
Elele.

Post edited by Elele on
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Comments

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    Dang it, posted in the wrong forum, should be in the carrara forum, sorry

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,707
    edited December 1969

    Moved to Carrara Discussion.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,194
    edited December 1969

    If you don't want it to glow, but need to use indirect light, try this:
    Color: Pure White
    Alpha: None
    Highlight: 0%
    Shininess 0%
    Everything else except what you need, like bump, perhaps, set to none.

    How's it going Elele?
    The above settings with Global Illumination with or without indirect lighting should resemble your pose product images, for example.

    The below image is the default, new empty scene without changing anything except the following:

    Sphere and Cylinder primitives have the above shader settings

    Plane - default (grey) shader, but turned highlight and shininess to 0%

    Default Light Brightness turned down to 60

    Scene - Background - color - left the gray that came in on default

    Render settings are default except turned on Global Illumination:

    Hope this helps. Love your Arachnoid and Infiltrator set! Bravo man!

    White_Shader_example1.jpg
    640 x 480 - 16K
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,040
    edited December 1969

    I've never seen an option to disable the light from the glow channel while using IL. Might be best to turn off glow and work with other shader functions to get the look you want. You could try translucency, stick a light in the middle of the object and have the light exclude everything from your scene except the object it's within. The other options would be highlight/shininess maybe.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,194
    edited December 1969

    Hey, are you going to start making some products for Carrara?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,040
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Hey, are you going to start making some products for Carrara?

    No.


    Ohhhh. That wasn't for me, was it. ;-)

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    Hello,

    is there a way to have an object with glow in the shader, but not have it cast light (when indirect light is turned on)?
    Doesn't really have to be glow, i just need the object to be pure white and not have it cast light.

    Thanks,
    Elele.


    I like the digitalcarversguild plugin called SHADERS PLUS
    http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=13

    It adds new controls to the shader tree including 2 that would help you:
    FLAT which makes the color shader non-reactive to light or shadow, it just *is*
    and GI Brightness which controls how the shader emits light under GI

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    If you don't want it to glow, but need to use indirect light, try this:
    Color: Pure White
    Alpha: None
    Highlight: 0%
    Shininess 0%
    Everything else except what you need, like bump, perhaps, set to none.

    How's it going Elele?
    The above settings with Global Illumination with or without indirect lighting should resemble your pose product images, for example.

    The below image is the default, new empty scene without changing anything except the following:

    Sphere and Cylinder primitives have the above shader settings

    Plane - default (grey) shader, but turned highlight and shininess to 0%

    Default Light Brightness turned down to 60

    Scene - Background - color - left the gray that came in on default

    Render settings are default except turned on Global Illumination:

    Hope this helps. Love your Arachnoid and Infiltrator set! Bravo man!

    Hello Dart :D
    Everything is fine over here, except the eventual bump on the road... Pretty big one atm actually, but I will conquer the sob eventually! :D
    How are you doing... when you are not inspiring others of course?
    Thanks for the help, but that isn't what i was looking for. Sorry, my art lingo isn't great... wich is a pain when trying to describe... artsy stuff :D
    I'm not planning on making carrara products just yet, all my promo's are done in Carrara though if that counts :)

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    I've never seen an option to disable the light from the glow channel while using IL. Might be best to turn off glow and work with other shader functions to get the look you want. You could try translucency, stick a light in the middle of the object and have the light exclude everything from your scene except the object it's within. The other options would be highlight/shininess maybe.

    The translucency thinghy kind of works, but it is adding major render time... too much to be practical :(
    Tried all sorts of other things with the lights/shadows of lightsource and the obj, but everytime the indirect light comes back. Even tried inverting the normals, but the glow keeps casting light.

    Thanks for the reply :)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,040
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    evilproducer said:
    I've never seen an option to disable the light from the glow channel while using IL. Might be best to turn off glow and work with other shader functions to get the look you want. You could try translucency, stick a light in the middle of the object and have the light exclude everything from your scene except the object it's within. The other options would be highlight/shininess maybe.

    The translucency thinghy kind of works, but it is adding major render time... too much to be practical :(
    Tried all sorts of other things with the lights/shadows of lightsource and the obj, but everytime the indirect light comes back. Even tried inverting the normals, but the glow keeps casting light.

    Thanks for the reply :)


    You could try the skylight if you have anything in the scene's background. Even a simple color will add light which can make it look as if full IL is on. The advantage is that it won't make the glow cast light. You won't get bounced light either, but since it's a spherical light source, it may be good enough to fake it, especially if you use accent lights.

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited March 2013

    holly wetcircuit said:
    Elele said:
    Hello,

    is there a way to have an object with glow in the shader, but not have it cast light (when indirect light is turned on)?
    Doesn't really have to be glow, i just need the object to be pure white and not have it cast light.

    Thanks,
    Elele.


    I like the digitalcarversguild plugin called SHADERS PLUS
    http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=13

    It adds new controls to the shader tree including 2 that would help you:
    FLAT which makes the color shader non-reactive to light or shadow, it just *is*
    and GI Brightness which controls how the shader emits light under GI

    That looks pretty sweet, the GI brightness seems to be exactly what i need, but I'm not sure I understand correctly.
    Will it be able to do this for example:
    I have a white plane as floor, and a white sphere with glow.
    Rendered with GI I get picture 1
    When rendered without GI I get Picture 2
    What I would like is to get the results of picture 2, but with Gi turned on. (In daz studio, one can just set the ambient color to white, but i don't see this option in carrara)

    Thanks Holly :)

    Doc46.jpg
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    Doc45.jpg
    640 x 480 - 7K
    Post edited by Elele on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,040
    edited December 1969

    So why do you have to have GI?

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    I need other objects in the scene to interact with the GI. But the object with glow in the scene is casting additional light, wich is pretty annoying. The skylight option might work, but I was kinda hoping there would be a simple way to get a glowing object that doesn't cast light...

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    Think I'm gonna get the digital carvers shader thinghy. It has some very usefull other thinghs too :)
    Specially the additional lighting options. I'm a little weary of buying stuff over the internet though from sites i don't know, will meditate some more on it :D

  • dot_batdot_bat Posts: 373
    edited December 1969

    couldnt you use the restrict lighting options for a light

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    dot_bat said:
    couldnt you use the restrict lighting options for a light

    I was hoping that, but even with a restricted light the indirect light from the object still remains, wich gives about the same effect as just having a glowing object...
  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Digital Carver's guild has been in business longer than DAZ. Even a little longer than Carrara existed (he first released plugins for Ray Dream).

    I guarantee you will not be sorry :)

    Here is a pretty old image I did with this plugin (Carrara5 I think) when I was trying to learn GI...

    The wax candles and the flames use FLAT to remove their shaders from interacting with the scene...
    The "buildings" outside are also just a plane with FLAT used to control the grey gradient on the cutouts precicely...

    harem.jpg
    640 x 480 - 97K
  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Here's how you set up the FLAT shader. It's actually an alternate Lighting Model, so the render engine treats it differently. What ever is in the color channel is what it will be....

    Screen_Shot_2013-03-25_at_11.47_.53_PM_.png
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    Screen_Shot_2013-03-25_at_11.45_.39_PM_.png
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  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    GI Brightness gives the same result but a different route. The white color goes in the glow channel, but you turn GI Brightness to 0

    Both are handy to have if you are using GI for lighting.... Otherwise you have no control over it.

    Screen_Shot_2013-03-25_at_11.53_.39_PM_.png
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    Screen_Shot_2013-03-25_at_11.51_.42_PM_.png
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,194
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    What I would like is to get the results of picture 2, but with Gi turned on.
    I believe it's the indirect lighting that's the culprit. You could fake in direct lighting with a light dome, and the glow won't cast light. Too bad there isn't a "Casts Light" check box in the glow channel. I've often wished that my glowing objects 'did' cast light - but I seldom use GI, so I never see this happen.

    I've been thinking about that Z-Brush discussion recently, as I've just acquired 'Curvy 3d', which is totally different, but reminds of Z in ways. That got me to thinking about sculpting apps, which got me to wondering how you and Z were getting along.
    I'm busy making a few new product lines for Carrara users, even though some will also work in Poser and D|S - so my fricken workstation is too busy rendering when my usual 'play time' starts - so I'm getting starved from my animation fun! Drats! Making a bonus backdrop right now that's a rain storm with lightning 6 second animated backdrop, using many layers of animations going back and forth between Carrara and Dogwaffle 8.2 Pro. So at least my work time is nearly as fun as playing. Lightning looks so dog-gone real it makes me hair stand up!

    Great seeing you in the Carrara forum. Hope you, Evil and Holly find a solution. With those two helping, you'll find the answer. Geniuses, it is, that they are :coolhmm:

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Oops I fell asleep before I was able to post this...

    Here's GI Brightness used with a pattern shader in the Glow.... If you've ever tried this without the plugin you know you lose all control over the amount of light emitted because the glow channel is no longer a simple color... GI Brightness corrects that. Notice how the pattern is clearly shown in the emitting light...

    (my ground plane is default grey, not white... oops again)

    Doc15.png
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    Screen_Shot_2013-03-26_at_9.13_.13_AM_.png
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  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Too bad there isn't a "Casts Light" check box in the glow channel. I've often wished that my glowing objects 'did' cast light - but I seldom use GI, so I never see this happen.

    Isn't that what the anything glows light is for?
    Cripeman had a tut about it i think.

    Havin loads of fun with Zbrush, still got a long way to go though before i can give a proper conclusion...
    Haven't heard of curvy3d, how do you like it?
    Looking forward to the new products :)

    Thanks Holly :D, meditation time is over and I'm getting that plugin as soon as i get home!
    I wasn't aware that glowing objects also cast light in GI. It's pretty sweet actually, it's just for this specific scene that it is causing a problem...


    On a side note, is there a plugin that allows you to mix two colors with fresnel (instead of mixer, add, multiply,...)? (It's possible in studio, but haven't been able to do that in carrara)

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    On a side note, is there a plugin that allows you to mix two colors with fresnel (instead of mixer, add, multiply,...)? (It's possible in studio, but haven't been able to do that in carrara)

    Yes, another plugin (and one I think EVERY Carrara user needs) is called SHADER OPS. It adds all sorts of functions to the shader tree. Fake Fresnel is one I use in like every scene I ever make...
    http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=11
  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited March 2013

    Hmm, how can i select the paypal option on the DCG site. On the product page it says it is an option, but i don't see it on the checkout page :(

    Post edited by Elele on
  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    I guess they don't sell these plugins anywhere else that accepts paypal? Otherwise I'm afraid i will not be able to get them. Damnit, I got all enthousiastic too when seeing what they can do :(

  • wetcircuitwetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    I guess they don't sell these plugins anywhere else that accepts paypal? Otherwise I'm afraid i will not be able to get them. Damnit, I got all enthousiastic too when seeing what they can do :(

    Just email him.
    http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/contact.php

    I don't work for the store or anything so I don't know about billing....

  • tbwoqtbwoq Posts: 238
    edited December 1969

    Save an irradiance map without the glow in the channel. Then, add the glow shader to the sphere and load the saved IR map.

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    That can work, thanks :)

    Mailed the digital carvers, but unfortunately the don't take paypal. It's a typo at the bottom of the page :(

  • EleleElele Posts: 1,097
    edited December 1969

    In case y'all were wondering what the fuzz was about: Needed to make promo images for textures so it was important to get nice and even lighting. The surrounding objects kept messing up the lighting and made it very difficult to control. I ended up getting the plugins, borrowed my mom's CC :D

    Still not entirely happy, but it's the best i can do atm :(

    Thanks for all the help! :)

    dfhdgh.JPG
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  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,040
    edited December 1969

    Elele said:
    In case y'all were wondering what the fuzz was about: Needed to make promo images for textures so it was important to get nice and even lighting. The surrounding objects kept messing up the lighting and made it very difficult to control. I ended up getting the plugins, borrowed my mom's CC :D

    Still not entirely happy, but it's the best i can do atm :(

    Thanks for all the help! :)

    Very nice paint scheme. Is it your model as well?

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