ok horo,david,rashad help
Trish
Posts: 2,625
hey guys I am getting my computer for me for xmas so from what I have read so far you are against windows 8??? What I have in mind is 64bit ,1t hd,12 gig mem, with some kind of graphics card not sure which yet (???) (ideas on that also) I dont want bryce or any other graphics program to bog me down like my last computer.....any ideas would help me before I spend the bucks......Thank You Trish
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While you are waiting for the others to pull in you could browse through this thread, Which did drift around other things as well but is mostly about Win 8 to start with.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/11544/
I notice you never even mentioned me in the title of this thread, but I tell you what, if you read all of the thread Pam pointed out, you will see that I am the one to take notice of (especially if you value your freedom and privacy). In short, my own recommendation is: DO NOT BUY WINDOWS 8 or indeed anything that attempts to force you to use your desktop machine like a touchscreen device, or forces you to allow them to data-mine you in any form whatsoever. You are supposed to be buying a licence to use a product, not buying a licence for them to use and manipulate you.
It's way out of hand now, and Windows 8 is the greatest example yet of what little regard Microsoft have for it's users, and what sort of bullsh*t they can get away with. People are really starting to get savvy to it now (you can see it all over the web), so the best thing you can do is join the savvy ones while the sheep continue to the slaughter.
Oh, and Trish, don't forget my Christmas Snog under the mistletoe while you're here!
PS: I have Windows 7 64-Bit and it's turned out to be a downgrade from Windows Vista 32-Bit, which performs infinitely better. It goes without saying that Windows 8 is Windows 7 with an even worse interface.
I was not a fan of Vista-32 bit, Vista 64 bit I liked alot. no complaints about my windows 7 64 bit system either, of course its hardware is leaps and bounds higher than my vista 64 bit system (8 cores vs 2 cores, 12gig ram vs 4 gigs ram).
windows 8 no thanks, a tablet based os ported to desktops/laptops thats just lazy and stupid.. plus it looks like Ubuntu, If I wanted Ubuntu I'd get it, its free..
I agree Rareth, no way was Vista ever going on a computer I owned, was why I went from XP to Win 7 to get 64 bit. Of course if I could have found one of the fairly rare copies of winXP 64 bit, then I would have gone down that route.
And as for Win 8, well least said, soonest mended.
xp 64 had more bugs going for it than I think you are aware of, Vista-64 bit was much better, which was the problem with vista 32bit,, vista was designed as a 64 bit OS at first, then the 32 bit OS was made from that, and it was not a clean convert. Microsoft development has gotten lazy with its programming, which I think is one of the reasons folks from the dev team are now job hunting after the Windows 8 debacle.
I think the problems with Windows 8 is pretty much like any other release of Windows where it's got minor bugs at first that only affect certain people and usually get worked out via updates in the first few months. That being said I would say go with Windows 7 if you have a choice but Windows 8 isn't so bad you need to avoid it. As for Bryce being that it's still just a 32 bit app and will remain so for the immediate future anyway, most of what today's computers offer won't help much. As a 32 bit app it can only make use of 2GB's of ram as is or roughly 3.5 GB's if you use a utility on it called LLA or Large Address Aware. So with 12GB's you have more then enough memory for Bryce. High end graphics cards are more for gaming or animation, for things like Bryce, Studio, Poser, etc. just a decent video card is sufficient. Mainly what you need to watch out for and only if you're buying a pre-built machine rather then building your own is that you don't end up with a graphics card built into the motherboard. Usually those types use some of the system memory for it's video memory and usually that's just not a good arrangement but it gets used alot because it's cheaper to build a system like that. What's really going to help you out more with Bryce and pretty much any other program is a multi core processor. If cost isn't a big factor then Intel is currently the best way to go for maximum performance but if cost is a factor then AMD can give you big savings and still have reasonably decent performance. The hard drive isn't going to do much for you performance wise other then 1TB gives you alot of space to work with, which is nice but if it's the only drive in the system it's going to get a major workout. I personally prefer to have one drive for my OS and programs like Office or other apps used routinely, a seperate drive for 3D Graphics related use and yet another drive for storage and when I did gaming alot I would sometimes have a 4th drive just for games. Having multiple drives cuts down on the amount of read/writes that occurs on any one drive and that usually extends the life of the drive and gives you slightly better performance in my opinion. The only drive that's really going to boost performance in a big way are the solid state drives but they're still rather pricey especially when you get up above 500 GB. I just priced a one TB solid state drive at www.newegg.com (usually has some of the best computer parts prices around) and they only have one option for that size. It's made by a company called OCZ which is a respectable brand name for memory but the price of that drive by itself is $2549.99 which is an insane price for just a drive. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227797
For what it's worth I was running Win XP 64 and while it was nice and gave me 64 bit capability Win 7 is better so I'd say you made the better choice. Really though the biggest problem with Win XP 64 was lack of support because so few used it or even knew about it for that matter.
Windows 8 looks like Ubuntu?
WTF, Windows 8 is nothing like Ubuntu, and free or not, give me Ubuntu any day as long as my programs run on it!
Windows 8 is Microsoft's take on monopoly after seeing what Apple have gotten and continue to get away with. Windows signature feature was the "Start" button in the bottom left of the screen, it's the way all Windows users have become accustomed to working, and was preferred by the vast majority over the unfriendly Mac OS way of working (ultimate OS my arse).
But in typical air-brained, inconsiderate Microsoft fashion, they have removed that way of working (after all these years) without even giving us the option to work how we've been used to working. No doubt an update will be forced out of their asses by pressure of public laxative, but nevertheless, Microsoft have to rank as the most inconsiderate company I've ever had the misfortune of knowing.
These aren't things that effect a few people, they are things that effect the majority of computer users all over the world, and that's a lot of people. They shouldn't be allowed to do the things they do, it's disruptive and manipulative. Like I said, the only way to deal with tossers like Microsoft is to stop using their products and services at the earliest possible convenience, because for those that don't, this bullshit is only the tip of the iceberg of what's to come!
Thankfully this bull does not and can not effect users of Ubuntu or any version of Linux, that's why I'm slowly but surely moving over to a Linux based operating system.
For what it's worth I was running Win XP 64 and while it was nice and gave me 64 bit capability Win 7 is better so I'd say you made the better choice. Really though the biggest problem with Win XP 64 was lack of support because so few used it or even knew about it for that matter.I still don't like Win 7 though. I was so used to the way XP did things.I had no option though, by the time I got the money together to buy this new system the company I use to build all my PCs had moved away from XP..
Windows 8 looks like Ubuntu?
WTF, Windows 8 is nothing like Ubuntu, and free or not, give me Ubuntu any day as long as my programs run on it!
.
I said LOOKS LIKE, not that it WAS like, take a chill pill, I'd switch to linux in a heart beat if all my crap would run on it.
I know what you said, but I'm buggered if I know how Windows 8 looks like Ubuntu!
Don't need a chill pill either, I went into detail in case you'd given the impression to others that Ubuntu is like Windows 8 ;-)
Like I said, nothing like Windows 8, thankfully.
Not even sure if I'll be using Ubuntu myself, I think I'll be settling on debian.
@Trish - so nice to see you back!
64-bit is cool and runs Bryce. 1 TB HD is good, sure, 12 GB memory as well. Bryce is still a 32-bit application and can address only 2 GB but you can have several Bryces open at the same time. You can also make it large address aware with a free, easy to use tool and then Bryce can address around 3.5 GB. Graphics cars - well, I've always looked for NVIDEA because I know it works.
Windows 8 - I made once the mistake to run a brand new Windows version and I'm not repeating that mistake again. I'd rather wait until at least the 1st service pack (SP1) is out. I'm running 2 Win 7 Pro 64-bit, 1 XP Pro 32-bit, 1 XP Home 32-bit and one Win 2000 Pro 32-bit. Bryce runs on all.
actually the gui does look like ubuntu desktop, the similarities are there, identical no, did MS copy the design, no doubts.
Well, Win 7 gives you the option to have the desktop classic. Mine looks as the one on Win 2000 and XP. A computer is a tool for me, I want to work with it and I can very well do without the fancy memory and CPU power eating ornaments.
Bryce 7.1 Pro runs nicely on Windows 7 64 bit for me. If there is no compelling reason to use a new OS, don't do it. Stick with what has been shown to work.
Yeah it takes getting used to because they moved things around but once you get used to it it's pretty nice. I was particularly impressed with how easily it set up all the network settings and did so properly, without me having to tell it what to do.
@Rareth
Microsoft know exactly why they designed it that way, and so do I, which is why I'm steering well clear of it.
@Horo
Agreed, although they don't do it for the pretty stuff, they do it to manipulate you.
@David
Agreed, in fact, although I don't like Windows 7 redraw performance compared to Vista, I'm still kinda glad I bought it now that I've seen what they did to Windows 8. I intend to stick to Windows 7 64-Bit for as long as possible, and if Microsoft haven't seen sense by the time comes to retire Windows 7, that's it, bye bye Windows.
I don't even want to change over if I can help it, I've been a Windows user ever since I gave up the Amiga and I could do without the inconvenience of learning something like a new OS, but it's there just in case I need it and I'm very thankful for that. When I see Windows 9, that will be a major break point for me, it will either be acceptable or it won't. If it turns out ok and they quit the overbearing manipulation crap, I might stick to Windows, but if not, they can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Not me. I had worked with computers long before MS came into being.
That's good to hear, but it still won't stop them forcing you to tie your Windows installation and ID to your credit card in the future.
You could have a million years under your belt, won't make any difference to what they'll be forcing you to do in the future just as soon as they have enough laws passed (or removed) to allow them to do so. The only reason they're not already doing so is because current laws prevent it.
Those laws are constantly under threat in various guises, as are your rights and freedom because of it.
thanks to all for the imput and pumeco im sorry i did not include you in the title are you flying me over for grog? I appreciate all the help
I would say to this, why wait? If your feelings are that strong then you should just get it over with and commit to whatever switch now. Be it ubantu, debian,Red Hat or whatever other flavor of Linux. It's a pretty safe bet that Microsoft is going to stay true to the business model they've stay true to since the beginning. Also as long as they continue to feel the need to compete with Apple then they will continue to mimic Apple which is why more then anything Windows 8 is the way it is. Although it's more then just that and all one needs as proof is to look at things like the Windows phone or their ipad knock off Surface. Of course it goes back all the way to the beginning since Microsoft only ever succeeded because they in essence stole from Apple and got an at least semi functional OS to market first. Had they not done so then Microsoft might never have even been.
Also as far as the thing you really object to, which is using you and your info to further their aims, well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's the direction the whole of the internet is moving in and not just because of Apple and Microsoft. Virtually every serious business entity on the internet wants to data mine everyone on the internet and use that info to make themselves more efficient and more profitable and if they can't find a way to use your info to their advantage they'll then want to sell it to someone who can. I don't know why but it's just incomprehensible to these entities that all they need do to get what they want is to give us what we want at a good and fair price and in a manner that is enduring and functional rather then waste so much time, energy and money trying to figure out new ways how to convince us that what they got is actually what we want and need.
@Trish
Alright then, I'll forgive you!
Of course if I had the cash I would fly you over immediately for lots of mad, passionate sex!
You can forget the grog though, you remember what happened last time you got drunk? You ended up at a Chippendale party where Horo and Rashad were performing. I've been mentally scarred for life and it's a vision that is still vivid in my mind even to this day!
@LordHardDriven
I have a similar view to Horo in that the computer is a tool, it's not something I want to be bothered with, it should "just work" and let us get on with our lives, that's what it should be like for all of us. Way back, when I had an Amiga running "Workbench", I never once had to concern myself with any of the crap we're seemingly endlessly having to deal with today because of these corporate f*cking misfits!
The bottom line is that these corporations cannot get it through their f*cking heads that we are buying a product from them and we have the right to buy that product without any underlying threat to our freedom or privacy. They just cannot get that through their corrupt skulls!
Bottom line is I will not have my life hampered by these b*stards, and no one else should stand for it either. My issue isn't against Microsoft's product "Windows", I like Windows, I just don't like where it's going and unless it changes radically there's no way I'm going to be part of it, I'm just not that stupid. That is why I'm learning to use a Linux based OS even though I'm not really wanting to switch over. The idea is that when the time comes, if I wanted to, I will have enough confidence to switch over to Linux without having to worry about learning it at the drop of a hat. When the time comes, I will already know how to use it.
It's there as a safety net, something to escape to if things don't change.
Everyone owes it to themselves to do the same, you'd have to be a complete and utter retard to dismiss Linux when it's free and can be installed on a separate partition and learned at your own pace (just in case). No one has to move over to it, but they owe it to themselves to at least learn to use it for if Microsoft really overstep the mark. Hopefully they won't, but I'm not prepared to chance running around like a headless chicken if they do.
If they do, I will be ready for it, and so will everyone else with even an ounce of common sense.
Okay, that's all fine and dandy but what I'm saying to you is it isn't going to change, that's the direction the internet is head in and it's not just software corporations wanting and trying to make it happen. So to say you'll wait until windows 9 and hope it gets better is kind of like saying after accidentally cutting your arm off, "I'll hold off on going to the doctor and just wait and see if my arm reattaches itself".
Personally I think in some ways you're letting yourself imagine a bit too much though like when you suggest one day Microsoft might force you to tie your OS to a credit card. What about the millions of people who don't have credit cards? Do you really think Microsoft or any other major (greedy) business entity is going to pass on so much potential business? BTW microsoft has been working in this direction for some time. A key element to this is what is called Microsoft Wallet which first appeared back in Windows 98 and IE 4 as a place for you to conveniently store all your credit card info to make online shopping easier by making it so you didn't have to memorize or go get your credit card when you wanted to shop online. It never really caught on though because it was around that time people started becoming aware of threats like Identity theft and so the notion of storing info on your computer which could be potentially hacked into was not only unpopular but was encourage against. So by IE 5.01 it was pulled as a default thing but could be added to any installation of Windows via update by anyone wanting to use it. It was then changed to Microsoft Passport, .NET Passport, Microsoft Passport Network, and most recently Windows Live ID but going forward is going to be called Microsoft Account.
LordHardDriven, seriously, I don't want to come across rude or anything but I don't think you have a clue what these corporations are up to. You really need to read-up on it and to understand why they're doing things the way they are doing it, and why your freedom and privacy is constantly under threat because of it.
The good news is we have a choice, the bad news is that most people aren't educated enough to make the right one.
You're right, the chances of Microsoft changing their goals are practically non-existent, and guess what, that's why I'm learning to use Linux ;-)
Well I also don't want to come across as rude but I seriously am starting to doubt your ability to read and comprehend. I do understand what these corporations are up to and I'm telling you it's more then just Apple or Microsoft and if a particular version of Linux ever becomes popular enough to become mainstream it'll include them too. The problem isn't the evil empire of Apple or Microsoft the problem is much bigger and broader then just one or two companies. Switching to some open source OS might insulate you from the inevitable for now but only until the powers that be figure a way around that or the world as we know it ends, whichever comes first.
I'm well aware of how broad it is, and I'm well aware of the lengths these corporations will go to get their own way.
I'm not religious, but for the sake of brevity let's just pray for those poor uneducated b*stards that frequent the web and say stuff like "I don't care". It's just one of those things that is so blazingly dumb I cannot help debate it whenever it pops up, I cannot believe how dumb some people are!
We'll see if they're still saying "I don't care" further down the line when their entire life-log is for sale from some hacker :-D
As for Linux, nope, I'm afraid not. If a Linux distribution got to the invasive state the commercial OS's are in, it wouldn't last very long because there is always an alternative Linux distribution out there. Linux users are similar to Android users (Android itself is built on Linux), they're the users that take no shit from the likes of Apple and Microsoft, and believe me, with those very users in control (as it should be, USERS in control), there's absolutely nothing to worry about there.
Like I said, they either change or I'm moving over to Linux, simple as that really.
I'd like to leave it at that, because constantly having to dabate this crap is getting old and pisses me off. It eats into my own time and I'm not happy about my own time being eaten into because of corrupt corporations.
Well we shouldn't be debating in the first place, we've both been in argeement the whole time which is why I was doubting your reading comprehension. The only difference is that I'm telling you there is no point waiting and seeing if Windows will change, it will not. The users might be able to force Microsoft's hand on keeping support for an OS they want to drop support for but they're not going get them to overhaul their business model or get them to drop something they've been working on since Win98.
As for the virtue of Linux all that you say is true now but the user base for Linux is incredibly small compared to MS and Apple and even then it's broken into smaller groups by the various flavors of Linux out there. The point I was making if it ever got to where it had mass appeal and started generating big bucks for some company that company would then start taking Linux in a similar direction. This whole issue of trying to get peoples info for marketing purposes is a capitalistic greed driven thing. It's a manifestation of the need to make ever increasing profits rather then being willing to settle for a steady level of profits.
There is no way on earth a corporation like Apple or Microsoft can ever take control of a Linux based OS other than their own distribution. It doesn't belong to anyone in the first place. They wouldn't even have any real control over their own distribution nevermind anyone else's. It's impossible because Linux distributions are produced as a joint effort by experts from countries all over the world. No person, corporation, or government can take that away even if they tried.
There will always be plenty of Linux distributions for those of us that value our rights and our privacy, and those are the distributions that are going to become most popular in the future.
Sure, even Apple and Microsoft are perfectly free to produce a Linux distribution themselves, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they're not already developing such things to market under a different brand name. But that would be their distribution, and people would be free to avoid it like the plague just as they are free to avoid Apple and Microsoft products right now.
Like I said, we have a choice, but some aren't educated enough to make the right one.
I'm not interested in helping Microsoft run their "Capitalist Greed Thing" or Apple to run their "Monopolistic iThing". Despite the glamour of the Apple hardware, I've always managed to hold back on supporting their bullshit and have never purchased anything they produce. I'm equally determined to disown Microsoft products in a heartbeat if I need to, no problem whatsoever.
The Mac runs on a Linux kernel. It is hidden and deliberately made inaccessible, there's a Linux below nevertheless.
And the Redhat Cygwin distribution runs atop of Windows. It interfaces nicely with Windows, making it VPN-compatible at no cost.