Daz Studio 4.5.1.6.Pro 32 Bit will not render

Comments

• Jaderail Posts: 0

  November 2012 edited November 2012

  At 4 Gb Ram on a 32bit system with Win7 loaded and DS4 loaded you are only left with about 2GB of Ram to load all the Figures, Textures, Lights etcetera and then Render. Your running out of Free ram to use for the Rendering process.

  Post edited by Jaderail on November 2012
• Szark Posts: 10,634

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  As Jaderail knows I have the same issues running a 32bit system with 4GB of ram. I just cannot render a scene, that DS3A or DS4 can, in DS4.5. I am affraid I have come to the conclusion (wrongly or rightly I don't know) that the advancements made is not doing some of us any favours in regards to memory.
• areg5 Posts: 617

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  Szark said:

  As Jaderail knows I have the same issues running a 32bit system with 4GB of ram. I just cannot render a scene, that DS3A or DS4 can, in DS4.5. I am affraid I have come to the conclusion (wrongly or rightly I don't know) that the advancements made is not doing some of us any favours in regards to memory.

  I'm feeling like an old fogey. I still thought that 4gig was a lot of ram. Guess not. So if I am reading this correctly, if I upgrade my Ram to the max, 8 gig, it should render just fine?
• Szark Posts: 10,634

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  On a 32bit system the max RAM used is 3.25GB so increasing won't do any good. However if you have a 64 bit system and Windows 64 bit then 16 GB is the max unless you have Windows Ulitimate, Pro what ever they called it these days you can go as high as 32GB.
• sriesch Posts: 4,241

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  While I'm not sure if that will or won't fix your problem, before you get carried away note that you aren't going to be able to access more than 4GB of memory with a 32-bit version of Windows. You'll need the 64-bit version to do that.
• areg5 Posts: 617

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  So, if I am now reading this correctly...to be able to use 4.5.1.6 without a hitch I have to upgrade the memory to the max AND upgrade the operating system to 64 bit, and the of course upgrade to studio pro 64 bit. I may just settle for Studio 3 which has served me well on my tired old system. That's too bad. I really like the Genesis figures. Shame on Daz for the lack of backwards compatibility! It should be usable in studio 3 but I haven't been able to make that happen.
• Szark Posts: 10,634

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  To be fair Genesis is a major andvanement over the Gen 4 figuire and uses Wieght Mapping (Google Wieght Mapping for a more detailed explanation) which DS3 doesn't. I have just reinstalled DS3A and intend on using it for some scenes but I like DS4.5 so much I am learning to render in layers and composit in GIMP etc.
• areg5 Posts: 617

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  Szark said:

  To be fair Genesis is a major andvanement over the Gen 4 figuire and uses Wieght Mapping (Google Wieght Mapping for a more detailed explanation) which DS3 doesn't. I have just reinstalled DS3A and intend on using it for some scenes but I like DS4.5 so much I am learning to render in layers and composit in GIMP etc.

  I had thought of rendering in layers, but man does that add a lot of steps and time. I mean, I can do a really nice scene with DS3, and I don't know if a composite render in DS4, with the extra time required to do it, would really look that much better.
• Szark Posts: 10,634

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  Yeah it does take more time and effort...but I looked at it as an oppotunity to learn more GIMP and Photoshop techniques and more of the artistic side of image making.

  Better; depends on what you are doing and how you do it to be honest. I think my images are getting better for it.
• sriesch Posts: 4,241

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  There may be other ways around the problem, although they might still require some effort and might still fall short. There was a thread somewhere about reducing memory consumption, although I don't remember where or everything in it.

  Perhaps you could reduce the size of some of your textures to use less memory? If you have something with a 2000x2000 texture and corresponding bump map and it's only 1 inch across on your screen, you could easily reduce that texture size and still get about the same render result.

  I can't remember how the undo stack works in DAZ Studio, but if you exit and restart right before you render, theoretically that should free up memory that was being used by the undo stack. Don't know how much extra that would give you.

  there's a 3GB option in Windows XP that might make slightly more memory available to your application; I can go find my notes on that if you want.

  If you have a very complicated scene with lots of objects and you aren't doing animation and moved the camera since placing them, it's possible that a few are hidden behind others and could actually be deleted. I also haven't looked closely at instancing, but if you have more than one copy of something in the scene, maybe replacing it with an instance will reduce the memory footprint.

  Also, do you know Studio was using up the memory? Could you possibly have had something else running that was hogging a bunch of memory and thus Studio couldn't use it's full share?

  Perhaps others have better ideas.
• Type 0 Negative Posts: 323

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  I was just reading over this and it made me wonder, I have a 64 bit windows 7 computer with 8 gigs of ram and have not yet upgraded to the DS 4.5 would I be okay to do so, reading here makes me wonder if it is a waste of time?
• sriesch Posts: 4,241

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  I am also running Windows 7 64-bit with 8GB of RAM. 4.5 is working fine for me. That doesn't mean you'll get the same results of course, since we all probably do slightly different things with it.
• mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  According to the specs I looked up, there are two video options...an oboard Intel graphics and a Nvidia mobile.

  If you are using the onboard, you are cutting the total amount of RAM available by whatever the graphics is using (probably 512 MB)...so you would be starting with less than 4 GB Plus, being 32 bit, you are limited to a max of 4 GB, no matter what. Couple that with the fact that even Win7 32 bit won't allow full access to the entire 4GB and you are, if using the onboard Intel graphics, probably getting around 2 GB of usable RAM...before you load anything.

  If you have the Nvidia graphics, make sure it is on and the one being used. That should bump the amount of RAM up to between 2.5 and 3 GB to start with...

  Best, long term solution...switch over to 64 bit Windows and double the amount of RAM (yeah, it would mean replacing both sticks that are currently in there...since the most likely factory installed combo is 2x 2GB sticks...)
• kyoto kid Posts: 40,559

  November 2012 edited November 2012

  ..i've been working in 32 bit for some time and like you can pretty much render only simple scenes. However as Genesis is so versatile (especially with GenX adn the "legacy" body shapes) I just grit my teeth and bear it for the time being.

  Some tricks I learned

  Set the viewport to Wireframe view (that saves memory that is dedicated to displaying textures)

  Render to a file instead of the the viewport or a separate window. aAain this helps conserve memory as it is not actively using the system's RAM to display the rendered scene as it is progressing.

  Watch for items with high reflectivity. These are usually render killers in 32 bit. I usually turn the reflectivity of items down if it will not affect the final rendered scene.

  In "Render Settings"

  Reduce the Render Bucket size to minimum (8) and reduce the Ray Depth to 1.

  When possible use Shadow mapping as it is not as memory intensive as ray tracing especially when it comes to hair and foliage which are usually heavy in transmaps.

  
  

  Sean Riesch said:

  there's a 3GB option in Windows XP that might make slightly more memory available to your application; I can go find my notes on that if you want..

  
  ...as I discovered, this only works if you have XP Pro.

  Post edited by kyoto kid on November 2012
• areg5 Posts: 617

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  Kyoto Kid said:

  ..i've been working in 32 bit for some time and like you can pretty much render only simple scenes. However as Genesis is so versatile (especially with GenX adn the "legacy" body shapes) I just grit my teeth and bear it for the time being.

  Some tricks I learned

  Set the viewport to Wireframe view (that saves memory that is dedicated to displaying textures)

  Render to a file instead of the the viewport or a separate window. aAain this helps conserve memory as it is not actively using the system's RAM to display the rendered scene as it is progressing.

  Watch for items with high reflectivity. These are usually render killers in 32 bit. I usually turn the reflectivity of items down if it will not affect the final rendered scene.

  In "Render Settings"

  Reduce the Render Bucket size to minimum (8) and reduce the Ray Depth to 1.

  When possible use Shadow mapping as it is not as memory intensive as ray tracing especially when it comes to hair and foliage which are usually heavy in transmaps.

  
  

  Sean Riesch said:

  there's a 3GB option in Windows XP that might make slightly more memory available to your application; I can go find my notes on that if you want..

  
  ...as I discovered, this only works if you have XP Pro.

  Good suggestions. I tried all of that. The thing that is killing me is the shadowing. Raytraced crashes the program, it will go with deep shadow mapping but doesn't look as good.
• mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

  November 2012 edited November 2012

  Kyoto Kid said:

  Reduce the Render Bucket size to minimum (8) and reduce the Ray Depth to 1.

  When possible use Shadow mapping as it is not as memory intensive as ray tracing especially when it comes to hair and foliage which are usually heavy in transmaps.

  Actually this one is getting less and less true...since 3Delight 10.x came out there have been massive improvements in the raytracer...both memory and speed. With the build of 3Delight in 4.5.1.6 they are close to par. With the build in the latest beta, in some cases the raytracer now wins.

  
  Good suggestions. I tried all of that. The thing that is killing me is the shadowing. Raytraced crashes the program, it will go with deep shadow mapping but doesn't look as good.

  Try a very simple scene with a single item (a sphere primitive works nicely) and raytracing...if it still crashes, then you are probably facing a 3Delight problem, that I believe has been fixed in the build that is included in the beta...

  The problem with 32 bit Windows is that it will reserve up to 2 GB of memory for it's own use (XP, less in Vista and later, but still some). Programs can't access this reserved amount...that's what the 3 GB switch in XP Pro is for...limiting XP to only 1 GB reserved and freeing the other gig for programs to use. So while 4 GB may seem like a lot, once you add up the reserved amount and the amount sucked up by an onboard video card, you don't have 4 GB any more.

  Post edited by mjc1016 on November 2012
• kyoto kid Posts: 40,559

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  ...this was done with Lantios Lights2 using deep shadow mapping.

  

  

  sadie_in_the_hood.jpg

  800 x 1131 - 577K
• areg5 Posts: 617

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  mjc1016 said:

  Kyoto Kid said:

  Reduce the Render Bucket size to minimum (8) and reduce the Ray Depth to 1.

  When possible use Shadow mapping as it is not as memory intensive as ray tracing especially when it comes to hair and foliage which are usually heavy in transmaps.

  Actually this one is getting less and less true...since 3Delight 10.x came out there have been massive improvements in the raytracer...both memory and speed. With the build of 3Delight in 4.5.1.6 they are close to par. With the build in the latest beta, in some cases the raytracer now wins.

  
  Good suggestions. I tried all of that. The thing that is killing me is the shadowing. Raytraced crashes the program, it will go with deep shadow mapping but doesn't look as good.

  Try a very simple scene with a single item (a sphere primitive works nicely) and raytracing...if it still crashes, then you are probably facing a 3Delight problem, that I believe has been fixed in the build that is included in the beta...

  The problem with 32 bit Windows is that it will reserve up to 2 GB of memory for it's own use (XP, less in Vista and later, but still some). Programs can't access this reserved amount...that's what the 3 GB switch in XP Pro is for...limiting XP to only 1 GB reserved and freeing the other gig for programs to use. So while 4 GB may seem like a lot, once you add up the reserved amount and the amount sucked up by an onboard video card, you don't have 4 GB any more.

  Yes, I am able to render a very simple scene with raytracing (a genesis figure with no background).
• kyoto kid Posts: 40,559

  November 2012 edited November 2012

  ...raytracing pretty much hangs up or crashes on my system (in spite of all the other measures I take). even with the latest version of 3Delight.

  Basically, if like myself, you have 4GB in 32 bit (without the switch), you only have 2GB that can be applied to other applications. Now add the "weight" of the application and loaded scene, and what you have left over is all that the system has available for rendering. So if the application and scene together take up say 600MB, that only leaves 1.4 G for rendering (the average that I usually have to deal with on my system). So yes, even a moderately "big" scene will usually run out of memory (particularly with raytracing) resulting in a crash.

  As I've had less than favourable experiences with beta releases in the past (forcing a rollback which means uninstalling and reinstalling the previous version which, with 4.x tends not to always go very smoothly since the uninstall routine doesn't catch everything) I tend to wait until the next "stable" public release is available.

  Post edited by kyoto kid on November 2012
• Kendall Sears Posts: 2,995

  November 2012 edited December 1969

  areg5 said:

  mjc1016 said:

  Kyoto Kid said:

  Reduce the Render Bucket size to minimum (8) and reduce the Ray Depth to 1.

  When possible use Shadow mapping as it is not as memory intensive as ray tracing especially when it comes to hair and foliage which are usually heavy in transmaps.

  Actually this one is getting less and less true...since 3Delight 10.x came out there have been massive improvements in the raytracer...both memory and speed. With the build of 3Delight in 4.5.1.6 they are close to par. With the build in the latest beta, in some cases the raytracer now wins.

  
  Good suggestions. I tried all of that. The thing that is killing me is the shadowing. Raytraced crashes the program, it will go with deep shadow mapping but doesn't look as good.

  Try a very simple scene with a single item (a sphere primitive works nicely) and raytracing...if it still crashes, then you are probably facing a 3Delight problem, that I believe has been fixed in the build that is included in the beta...

  The problem with 32 bit Windows is that it will reserve up to 2 GB of memory for it's own use (XP, less in Vista and later, but still some). Programs can't access this reserved amount...that's what the 3 GB switch in XP Pro is for...limiting XP to only 1 GB reserved and freeing the other gig for programs to use. So while 4 GB may seem like a lot, once you add up the reserved amount and the amount sucked up by an onboard video card, you don't have 4 GB any more.

  Yes, I am able to render a very simple scene with raytracing (a genesis figure with no background).

  In a nutshell, your problem is 32 bit Windows, period. Windows 7 (and the associated necessary support services) uses too much all by itself to lead to much usability. Add to that the fact that all newer software is starting to assume that the full 64 bit address range is available and are wasting memory worse than ever. You've a base 64 bit system, and running W7/32 on it is not doing any of your software any favors. You really do need to upgrade to W7/64 as soon as you can.

  Now, with all of that being said, it is perfectly possible to get 20 Genesis figures + environment into DS4.5 in a 32 bit system. I've done it, recently. I constantly work with scenes with >10 Genesis characters in them under 32 bit environs. You really do need to keep track of what you're doing and what resources you are playing with. High res textures are the biggest downfall. No one seems to take into account just how much RAM a 4Kx4K texture is going to use. One should always evaluate where a lower res texture (or a procedural shader) can be used in place of the "standard."

  Kendall