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3D Figure With Most Expressive Face?

FauvistFauvist Posts: 2,038
edited December 1969 in The Commons

What figure has the face that will express the most emotions? I'm even having trouble getting natural looking smiles. I do a lot of close ups of faces, so I need really fexible figures. I realize it is a combination of the base mesh, and whatever 3rd party morphs are added. I'm looking for both male and female figures, adults and teenagers.

Thanks!

Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,794
    edited December 1969

    well Genesis and GenX will give you the biggest range as you can use V4, M4, K4 stuff and with the G3 iconic shapes and David3 addons, morphs from them too.
    lots of sharecg freebies as well as store bought morphs.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 2,038
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    well Genesis and GenX will give you the biggest range as you can use V4, M4, K4 stuff and with the G3 iconic shapes and David3 addons, morphs from them too.
    lots of sharecg freebies as well as store bought morphs.

    Thanks for the info. I haven't used Genesis for anything yet. I have two questions.

    If Genesis has a different mesh from those of the 3rd and 4th generation meshes, how can the morphs for old figures work in Genisis if the vertices are different in number and place?

    If all these morphs are usuable with Genesis, how are they all labelled? How do you keep track of them? If you have 20 smile morphs from different figures added to the Genesis morph pool, how do you know which is which?

    Thanks!

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 37,794
    edited December 1969

    I do not know the technicallitys, geometry shell clone shape or something
    it puts the morphs under GenX
    in my case as I have done it a few times and also facegen etc, a real dogs breakfast, I use search a lot!!!
    and yes, have about 20 smile morphs but can tell the Genx ones, renaming prob a good idea

  • nieman151_516f901a4anieman151_516f901a4a Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I think V4 had better mesh than v3 for expressions. I think most people tend to make morphs and expressions too symmetrical so they look unnatural. I use my randomizer script for the 3rd and 4th generation figures.

  • DogzDogz Posts: 896
    edited December 1969

    You know, although I never use her anymore, SMs MIKI characters had very good realistic facial expressions - but sadly -some god awful problems with her knee and elbow joints though.

  • nieman151_516f901a4anieman151_516f901a4a Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dogz said:
    You know, although I never use her anymore, SMs MIKI characters had very good realistic facial expressions - but sadly -some god awful problems with her knee and elbow joints though.

    Miki4 still has odd arms.
  • DogzDogz Posts: 896
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:
    fivecat said:
    Dogz said:
    You know, although I never use her anymore, SMs MIKI characters had very good realistic facial expressions - but sadly -some god awful problems with her knee and elbow joints though.

    Miki4 still has odd arms.

    Miki 1020 aka Miki 1. Still use her.

    I never really worried about her knees & elbows - my characters keep their clothes on.

    So do mine, but shorts, skirts and Tshirts are clothes too.

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 1,698
    edited November 2012

    While I don't own her and have never used her (making this pure speculation), my instinct (based on promotional material) has always been that Ang 2.0 was probably the most expressive figure.

    http://www.mankahoo.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=137

    I'd watch the video on that page.

    Post edited by JoeQuick on
  • jmperjmper Posts: 257
    edited December 1969

    My vote goes to Miki2, TY2, and G2 Male line.
    All have much more natural expressions (even for an anime-ish character like TY2) and there are many good ones.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,755
    edited December 1969

    fivecat said:
    Dogz said:
    You know, although I never use her anymore, SMs MIKI characters had very good realistic facial expressions - but sadly -some god awful problems with her knee and elbow joints though.

    Miki4 still has odd arms.

    This is because she is actually a double-jointed sex android. I know this is true from renders I have seen on some Japanese poser sites.


    :coolgrin:

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 2,038
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:
    While I don't own her and have never used her (making this pure speculation), my instinct (based on promotional material) has always been that Ang 2.0 was probably the most expressive figure.

    http://www.mankahoo.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=137

    I'd watch the video on that page.

    Thanks for pointing out Ang2. I watched the video. It was interesting. They were using Poser 9 or 2012. Most of the facial expressions seemed to be created, not by turning the Ang2 morph dials, but by using Poser's "morph tool". I think that was what the little green dot that they were pulling around was. Or am I wrong? If it was just the morph tool, then those expressions should be achievable with the Daz figures too.

    When the morph dials are turned in the video, they seem to do pretty much what the DAZ figure morph dials do - open the mouth, make the nose bigger, etc.

    Ang2 has no Wardrobe Wizard support so none of the DAZ figures clothes will fit her.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,755
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    What figure has the face that will express the most emotions? I'm even having trouble getting natural looking smiles. I do a lot of close ups of faces, so I need really fexible figures. I realize it is a combination of the base mesh, and whatever 3rd party morphs are added. I'm looking for both male and female figures, adults and teenagers.

    Thanks!

    Technically - Emotiguy. ;-)

    Theoretically Genesis will be able to give you the most range, simply because it CAN take morphs for the others via GenX. That said, it's a two step process and there more pre-made expression morphs out there for V4 than all the other figures combined. There are some amazingly gifted artists out there distributing them. Ironman13 and Darkworld at Renderosity and Tempesta3D at both Rendo and Content Paradise, in particular, have done some absolutely amazing work that's a fantastic base to build upon. It's also well worth it to pick up extra eye textures like http://www.daz3d.com/shop/l-i-e-makeup-layers-for-v4, as subtle details like smudged and running makeup and glittering eye reflections can be the key to selling subtler emotions.

    FWIW, my personal process tends to be to work things out on a base V4 or M4, then transfer to the final figure and adjust for eye lines and lighting, then do a last final adjustment in photoshop, where just a tiny distortion at the edge of the mouth or tweak of the exposure on the eyes can often convey far more than what's possible with just a morph.

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 2,038
    edited December 1969

    Cybersox13 said:
    There are some amazingly gifted artists out there distributing them. Ironman13 and Darkworld at Renderosity and Tempesta3D at both Rendo and Content Paradise, in particular, have done some absolutely amazing work that's a fantastic base to build upon. It's also well worth it to pick up extra eye textures like http://www.daz3d.com/shop/l-i-e-makeup-layers-for-v4, as subtle details like smudged and running makeup and glittering eye reflections can be the key to selling subtler emotions.

    FWIW, my personal process tends to be to work things out on a base V4 or M4, then transfer to the final figure and adjust for eye lines and lighting, then do a last final adjustment in photoshop, where just a tiny distortion at the edge of the mouth or tweak of the exposure on the eyes can often convey far more than what's possible with just a morph.

    Thanks for pointing these out. I'll take a look at what's available. Just to check - all these 3rd party morphs for V4 can be transferred to Genesis?

    And what happened to Victoria 5? Is there any advantage of using Victoria 5 over Victoria 4?

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,755
    edited December 1969

    jmper said:
    My vote goes to Miki2, TY2, and G2 Male line.
    All have much more natural expressions (even for an anime-ish character like TY2) and there are many good ones.

    Man, I miss TY2. Her body was hinged a little oddly in the middle, but given that she began as a mainstream advertising model rather than a commercial hobbyist product, she was way ahead of most of the other figures of her time in terms of design and subtlety of expression. If they'd ever produced a male counterpart, she might have given Aiko3 a good run for her money, but...

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,755
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Cybersox13 said:
    There are some amazingly gifted artists out there distributing them. Ironman13 and Darkworld at Renderosity and Tempesta3D at both Rendo and Content Paradise, in particular, have done some absolutely amazing work that's a fantastic base to build upon. It's also well worth it to pick up extra eye textures like http://www.daz3d.com/shop/l-i-e-makeup-layers-for-v4, as subtle details like smudged and running makeup and glittering eye reflections can be the key to selling subtler emotions.

    FWIW, my personal process tends to be to work things out on a base V4 or M4, then transfer to the final figure and adjust for eye lines and lighting, then do a last final adjustment in photoshop, where just a tiny distortion at the edge of the mouth or tweak of the exposure on the eyes can often convey far more than what's possible with just a morph.

    Thanks for pointing these out. I'll take a look at what's available. Just to check - all these 3rd party morphs for V4 can be transferred to Genesis?

    And what happened to Victoria 5? Is there any advantage of using Victoria 5 over Victoria 4?

    Yes, facial expressions are just morphs, so they can be transferred via GenX. They will look a little different, depending on how far you take the Genesis mesh from the base Gen4, but that's equally true if you start morphing V4 towards A4 or even S4, etc. As for V5, she's a souped up Genesis morph, so what applies to base Genesis applies to her as well.

  • jmperjmper Posts: 257
    edited December 1969

    Cybersox13 said:
    Man, I miss TY2. Her body was hinged a little oddly in the middle, but given that she began as a mainstream advertising model rather than a commercial hobbyist product, she was way ahead of most of the other figures of her time in terms of design and subtlety of expression. If they'd ever produced a male counterpart, she might have given Aiko3 a good run for her money, but...

    Totally agree.
    I get by with morphing various figures to appear as suitable counterparts but a true counterpart would have been wonderful.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    edited December 1969

    jmper said:
    My vote goes to ...G2 Male line.

    Seconded.

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 1,698
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Joequick said:
    While I don't own her and have never used her (making this pure speculation), my instinct (based on promotional material) has always been that Ang 2.0 was probably the most expressive figure.

    http://www.mankahoo.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=137

    I'd watch the video on that page.

    Thanks for pointing out Ang2. I watched the video. It was interesting. They were using Poser 9 or 2012. Most of the facial expressions seemed to be created, not by turning the Ang2 morph dials, but by using Poser's "morph tool". I think that was what the little green dot that they were pulling around was. Or am I wrong? If it was just the morph tool, then those expressions should be achievable with the Daz figures too.

    When the morph dials are turned in the video, they seem to do pretty much what the DAZ figure morph dials do - open the mouth, make the nose bigger, etc.

    Ang2 has no Wardrobe Wizard support so none of the DAZ figures clothes will fit her.

    They were handles... if you just started grabbing random points on a meshes face, you wouldn't be getting controlled effects like smiles, mouths opening, etc... you'd get a distorted mesh.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 8,755
    edited December 1969

    Fauvist said:
    Ang2 has no Wardrobe Wizard support so none of the DAZ figures clothes will fit her.
    Of course, wardrobe (or more correctly, the lack thereof) has pretty much been the major problem with every single figure ever produced outside of the primary male and female Daz figures, and had the Ang2 character ever proven even moderately popular, there almost certainly would have been a WW or Crossdresser fit set. That said, having looked at Ang2's product page and demo, I suspect wardrobe wasn't really a particularly high item on the "must do" list as far as that character's marketing target went. :ohh:

    Not as bad as poor old Eroko, though, who AFAIK never got a single outfit...

  • FauvistFauvist Posts: 2,038
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:

    They were handles... if you just started grabbing random points on a meshes face, you wouldn't be getting controlled effects like smiles, mouths opening, etc... you'd get a distorted mesh.

    Oh, they're handles? They seem awfully effective. Is there a reason why there aren't expression handles made for DAZ figures? How would one go about making a handle?

  • pwiecekpwiecek Posts: 1,537
    edited December 1969

    One of the problems with smiles for Victoria 3 & 4 is that the stock face is very broad. People who are trying to create a pretty character narrow the face down. People creating the expressions work with the stock face. when you apply the character and the smile, the morphs try to use the same vertices and the morphs don't work together.

    For smiles, I prefer Terai Yuki 2.

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