She Freak and Young Teens
Haslor
Posts: 402
We had the Generation 4 shape for Genesis and the Generation 3 Shapes for Genesis.
So Both of these had She Freak, yet there is no She Freak 2 or 4 for Genesis.
Also there I am curious if anyone is thinking of Luke and Laura or Young Teens?
Thanks
Haslor
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I actually started a Luke and Laura Thread a few days ago.
I think it was somewhere around page 5 or 6 in the forums last night. It might have been shifted back a bit. there've been new posts since then.
If you grab Genesis Evolution bundle, it comes with tools you can use to build your own version of She-Freak. I have had no problems with building muscular, statuesque ladies using it. I'm sure that someone could release a free character morph/preset, if requested at General Freepository request thread. I can recommend that Evolution bundle because it is giving really great results in getting variance in characters.
But...
I... heck. Sorry to get my panties twisted, but I do have a small problem with calling her as "She-Freak", mostly because...
1) I am friends with some female body fitness people, and they get all kinds of crap flung at them for daring to differ from gender stereotype.
2) I am also friends with trans women, who get even more crap flung at them.
And both groups of my friends regularly get called "she-freaks", both on- and offline. I am neither, but I am far, far away from fitting the society's "standard" of female, and I've also gotten that flung at me. So it kinda chafes like ill-fitting lace panties. This is not aimed at you, Haslor, just noting my distinct discomfort with the original pick for the name; if someone did a new morph/character set with a different name, I certainly wouldn't mind. I think that would be awesome.
I think the original decision was just a play on She-Hulk (the best-known fictional character of that type) and the male Freak name. But I did wince a little the first couple of times I saw the She-Freak label, even so.
I know; I know that there's no ill intent behind it. (I kinda wince at She-[male super hero identity] names as well.) It is still a bit cringe-worthy name, that's all. I do like the character idea, though.
If Daz has Gen3's Freak and Victoria (along with Freak4 and Victoria4) as Genesis morphs, couldn't a female bodybuilder with varying muscularity be made from them? And the Gen3 and Gen4 clothes auto-fitted to the buffed up women?
OT -I think He-Man was an even more cringe-worthy name. While She-ra actually worked out better(as a name).
He-Man, seriously? Is that they best they could come up with? I get it, he's really really macho.
Yeah, "He-Man" really comes across as "trying to compensate". ;)
Hmmm, there's a thought for a set of morphs and characters... But how to make Skeletor? (The easy, lazy way, that is.)
He is, isn't he? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32FB-gYr49Y
He is, isn't he? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32FB-gYr49Y
that is hysterical, and now that song is stuck in my head. The He-Man version.
Slate.com once ran a contest to see who could come up with the best movie title name from an 80's toy (this was around the time of the 2nd Transformers movie). Three hilarious He-Man entries were made:
He-Man and the Infinite Sadness
He-Man: The Tyranny of the Unnecessary Third Person Pronoun
and my favorite..
He-Man: Briefs of Rage
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/movies/2009/07/heman_and_the_infinite_sadness.html
quote author="Barubary" date="1338564353"]
Oh Great.... I ask a Serious questions and we sink to the depths of He-Man and She-ra.
Back on Topic:
A Basic Child comes as part of the Base Genesis figure, which is not to be confused with the K4 Shape for Genesis.
Then is Baby for Genesis, which is much better than Millennium Baby.
But there is nothing between that and Stephanie 4 (Who is more average that Victoria)
Taking the Genesis Basic Child smoothly from child through tween - pre-teen and Teen years isn't easy and in most cases it just looks wrong, so you end up doing a lot of tweaking to get it anywhere visual correct. It is not bad if you are standing a bunch of Genesis Basic Child teenagers standing next to each other, but once you put them next to Stephanie or Reby Sky, then it becomes obvious something is wrong.
Note: Reby Sky is most likely the most average sized model that DAZ has.
The Average American Woman, regardless of ethic background, is 1.632 m (5 ft 4 1⁄2 in) According to a chart at Human Height. According to Reby Sky’s Resume; she is 1.65m (5ft 5 in.) that make her the same height as the Average American White Female. Again from her Resume her other measurements are 34A-26-36, which make her a size 4, which comes from her being underweight, at 107 pounds for the average BMI is 125. (it’s amazing what you can find on the web).
So I’ve looked at a few preset products.
For Gen4 there is Shape of a Child
There are a few freebie products for Genesis like Shape of a Child:
Eden Evergreen's John Q Genesis & family (DAZ only)
Fireflightt’s School Yard Collection and Baby Genesis.
A Bit OT: Fireflightt also has a dwarf morph, Tallas Family Genesis
The problem with all of them is proportion, because it is not a Linear conversion.
The proportions especially in the head and shoulders and some have a more adult girth. Child aren't small adults.
As an example I pulled this off a knitting site about making hats, to illustrate the issue. there isn't that much of a variation between a toddler's head and and teenager's head.
Age ............................................................................... Head Circumference
NewBorn ...................................................................... 13" - 14 " 33-36cm
Baby - 3 to 6 months ................................................ 14" - 17 " 36-43 cm
Baby - 6 to 12 months .............................................. 16" - 19 " 41-48 cm
Toddler - preschooler (12 months - 3 years) ......... 18" to 20 " 46 -48 cm
Child (3 - 10 years) .................................................... 19" - 20 1/2" 48-51 cm
Pre-teens and Teens ................................................. 20 1/2" - 22" 53 -56 cm
Adult Woman .............................................................. 21.5" - 22.5"
Adult Man .................................................................... 23" - 24" 58.4 cm - 61 cm
So…. I have been working on a mixture of Genesis Basic Child and the Genesis Basic Female, to build a replacement shape for Laura.
I started with Laura first because she will most likely be the harder than Luke.
I'm close, but oh so far away. The head I had to reduce and the Torso length too, and done a few other thing to make the head fall into line.
There is also the face.
But this might be a several step process.
infant (ages 4 weeks – 1 year) …... Baby for Genesis
toddler (ages 1–3)………………….. I think we have the Toddler
preschooler (ages 4–6)….….….….. the Basic Child may fill this.
school-aged child (ages 6–13) …… This really will require a little tweaking
Tween or Pre-teen (ages 9-13)…… Luke and Laura stage.
adolescent (ages 13–20) ….……… a slightly modified Stephane and David (Some people get stuck in this stage of develop)
Young Adult (ages 20-40) ………… Stephane and David
One other point, the structure of the human face changes throughout childhood, and there is a subtle change happens in the face somewhere between 18-21, that really marks the end of childhood and their progression into Young Adult stage.
Oh and I agree with Skiriki, She-Freak is a offensive name for her, she is not a Freak of nature.
The reason you just can't add Freak to Victoria 4, is women gain muscle mass in different amounts and different areas, and they maintain those soft edges, which make the males of the species desire them.
Also, if they have a low body fat index in the body, the breast are naturally going to be smaller.
Most of the volume of a human mammary gland is fat, reduce the fat you reduce the size of the breasts.
Sorry to be long winded but I thought I would explain my point a little further.
And there is a illustration which may help.
Haslor
No, but Genesis Evolution bundle can do that. Since I use my stuff mostly for creating RPG characters, I play mostly female characters, and I enjoy creating asskicking ladies with a bit of a muscle, I've successfully used it to give 'em the muscles where it counts.
Okay, not the best example and my head hurts too much to work on it more... but here we go.
Yeah, I'm sorry. But as someone else said before, there has been a thread about the topic, like, a day ago. I think you'll find a lot of other people asking for teenage characters in there. And Thorne, thankfully announcing she is working on something in that direction.
Also, while I didn't really see you ask much of a question, I am most certainly hoping for more teenaged shapes, particularly waiting for Luke and Laura from DAZ making a return. Or even the Gen 2 Millennium Kids.
Here's hoping DAZ feels like answering our call at some point :D
I posted over in the other thread that what we've got is two different issues. First is the issue of finding decent morphs for the target age group -- which is a long-standing gap. The at age group was never directly supported by DAZ for Gen4, although there are some preteen and young teen morphs for V4 from 3rd parties.
The other issue is getting the clothing for the Gen3 and earlier teens and preeteens back into service. Which is a whole different pair of sleeves. There wasn't a *lot* of content for the Gen3 teens, but there was some, and some of it is worth keeping.
Where Genesis is concerned, the first issue just requires that someone release some decent bases to use as a starting point, and the previews that Thorne posted look like just what the doctor ordered. Even at this point in time there is already enough usable clothing content for Genesis which is not hopelessly inappropriate for kids to be going on with. And that is a situation which will only improve with time.
Getting the older clothing back seems to require a decent clone target, or something, which matches the original figures, and that's going to take either some effort on the part of DAZ or some dedicated twiddling from a 3rd party. And I don't know whether anyone considers the amount of content to potentially be converted sufficient for the effort.
She-Freak converts nicely with GenX; the only problem is that you need to have the Gen 4 shapes for Genesis, and the V4 Morphs ++, as well as GenX itself, so it may not be as cheap as a Genesis She-Freak would be. On the other hand, I now have 4 bodies and 8 heads from the conversion, so there's a lot of material to work with. The render below used head 01 (Bremusa) and body 01. Also the Valerie skin & makeup, Paradise Bird Hair, Supersuit (basic), Super belt & gloves, and Genesis Bracers. The bodies that come with it are really good for superheroes and fantasy renders.
I've got Wardrobe Wizard. Never got anything even remotely usable out of it for any figure. Am intending to see how far the transfer utility in DSPro will take me.
I'm grudgingly prepared to write off any Gen3 content for the teens. Mainly because there is ample casual clothing, and even fantasy clothing already available for Genesis which will fit teen figures once I have some to work with. If anything I'm rather more grumphed about the lack of a usable clone target for Gen3 Matt and Maddie, because there actually was a reasonable amount of clothing for them.
For non-skankware and normal clothes worn by sane people, I recommend to check out Wilmap's freebies for Genesis in ShareCG. She's also got a bunch of textures to go with those.
Sickleyeild over on Rendo is another good source of real-looking clothing that real people could wear. Not free, but not exhorbitant. Will run a search on Wilmap on ShareCg.
Quite a bit of the stuff for the teens that I would want to port over were Luke and Laura versions of V3 and M3 clothing, so those are already covered. One just ports over the V3 or M3 version and can use it on a Genesis of any age.
I can heartily recommend Wilmap's clothes. They really look lovely, and the design is such that I can see lots of 'em worn by men and women, boys and girls, no matter what age. The sundress, for example, is extremely lovely for a kid figure, but works for that "teen next door" look as well.
I see what you mean. Excellent selection of real-world clothing. And plenty of mat zones -- which isn't always the case. Although not surprising given that the rest of her offerings are shaders for Fabricator.
However, I will confess that shortly after the release of of Michael 5 and before the site transition I PMed Randall about what DAZ has planned for the rest of the Millennium Family now that the leading duo are completely out. I specifically inquired about Stephanie, David, Aiko, Hiro, Girl, and Freak to which he only said, and I quote from firm memory:
But be rest assured that there's plenty to be excited about!
So I've been doing a little slider pushing and here is what I can up with:
The first image is of five models. in the back row are the Genesis version of Stephanie 4 and Victoria 4
In the Front row on the right is the Genesis Version of Reby Skye and to the Left is Basic Child 100% Basic Female and 42% Basic Child, This give you are model who is 80.9% the size of the Basic Genesis base. In the middle is Genesis Girl, she is also 100% Basic Female and 42% Basic Child and 80.9% scale of the Genesis base, but is a heavily modified version using the Genesis Morphs to reduce the size of the head and shorten the arms and torso. Also I thought Basic Child was a bit chesty for a preteen.
(Yes, I made her a little buff, the character I am building is a runner so a little buff is what I need.)
Notice the head size on Basic Child and cop are it to Stephanie's head.
Compare the Arm length to Stephanie, she looks ape-ish.
The next image is Genesis Girl and Laura with an 18" ruler between them, (to give you a sense of scale.)
They are at the same base and notice that Knees, hips and shoulders are at the same height.
The last image is Genesis Girl in Zero Pose front and profile.
Using the nice Height Rule from Fire_Angel I can tell you that the Genesis Girl is 143.5cm or 4'8.5".
Thoughts?
Haslor
Oh crap! I'm just NOW seeing this.
Since you did some comparison between Genesis Child and Laura, I might as well resubmit my own here where I tested DAZ's claim about using V5 with Basic Child to make a decent teen.
Laura 3 (default) to the left, "Laura 5" (V5 50%, BC 38% & Small Breasts 50%) to the right. each figure is of equal height and separated only by 30 cm respectively.
My target for the preteen Laura Replacement was a Girl 10.5 years of Age and she is a little off average at 143.5cm.
A nine year old is going to have very little in the way of secondary sexual characteristics, so 50% small breasts might be too big, mine is set to 95%. I also saved my target out as an actor target like Basic Child, which would allow for further morphs to be applied.
Both our models suffer from the same issue, the neck and head are too tall.
If you look at the Head size chart below, you will see that the head doesn't increase in width as much as it increases in height.
And if you look back at the Ideal Proportions chart on page one, you will see the same width and Height changes happens in the Neck.
I am currently working on creating a Morph that will take this into consideration.
I am also looking at Creating severl Morph targets.
- preschooler (ages 3–5)….….….….. the Basic Child may fill this. Target Age 4 or around 100cm tall
- school-aged child (ages 5–9) …… This really will require a little tweaking - target age 7 or on average 121cm tall
- Tween or Pre-teen (ages 9-13)…… Luke and Laura Preteen 10.5 or on average 141cm tall
- young adolescent (ages 13-16)........Luke and Laura stage or 14.5 or 161cm for female and 167sm for male
- adolescent (ages 17–20) ….……… a slightly modified Stephane and David
I have found several documents on the mesurements of the human body at various stages of development.
The Heights I am quoting off a height and weight chart from the CDC.
And the Average Height of a female in the Western world is around 163cm.
Haslor
Oskarson. Rendo. Now.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/genesis-preteens/94170#
I'll grab Thorne's when they come out too. But this is a start. Rather a good one, too.
Several of our characters include young adult morphs:
Ryuu International: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/ryuu-international-m4-and-genesis/
Ashley M5: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/ashley-for-m5/
Anya V5: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/anya-for-v5/
Braxton M5: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/braxton-for-m5/
Santo International for Genesis (though the promos really don't show it that well with all of the body hair mixed in): http://www.daz3d.com/shop/santo-international-for-genesis-1/
Ashley M5 also has two morphs that could be used for a young teen or preteen.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2337430
I just simply tried to match the same bust as Laura has, but I see what you mean.
I agree Oskarsson's Genesis PreTeen do look good and he also has a set for V4.
The V4 package states, "The PreTeen starter pack has everything you need to turn Victoria4 into a girl of 10-12 years of age", but I will say the girls seems a bit chesty for a preteen for 10-12 year old, though it is very hard to make V4 flat chested without the male morphs.
Talking about Thorne, I've been playing with Handspan Studios and Thorne's Head Morph Resource Kit 1 Kit 2 and Kit 3 and Body Morph Resource Kit 1 to see if I can get the face right. Their body morphs allowed me to slim down the thighs and hips, something I couldn't find among the all the other morphs I have for Genisis, I needed to get the slight whour glass out of the waist.
Male-M3dia:
The one thing about most of the teen morphs I have seen don't take into account the changes in the face, they have an adult face on a smaller version of the adult body. While boy and girl grow at different rates, at the end of puberty there are subtle and not so subtle changes in the face, for both males and females, to give them a more mature face. Boys' faces become more masculine loosing the boyish look, while Girls' faces turn loose their "little girl cuteness" and become womanly. (Though there are a few women who never seem to loose that girlish face until they are older, I happen to call them Pixies.)
Of your models of the young men, The youngest of the two teenage Ashley looks to be about 15ish and the older around 17. The young Braxton looks to be around the same age 16ish. it would be interesting to know what your target age was for each of those.
As for your rendering of the Young Warrior that is actually very nice and I would see him a well toned 14 year old.
I have been looking at them to portray two of the male characters in my writing. (the whole visualizing the character idea)
I understand you limitations with the M5 model and the same limitations exist in the V5 model, though Handspan Studios and Thorne's Head Morph Resource Kits are available for V4, though I don't remember seeing the body morphs.
I am presently working on modeling my Daughter's face at various ages, from several good photos, with Thorne's morph packages. Hopefully this will show you what I mean, by this change in the face. I should be able to do it this coming weekend.
Sorry for being a stickler, but I'm working on several stories where I'm using Studio for Character portraits.
Haslor