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Part of the reason you haven't seen much good skin in Octane, is the same reason early Lux skin renders looked kind of blah, lack of proper material setup. Mec4D & I discussed in her Octane thread on the old Daz board, the need for simple layering to create what you see in real life. We're dealing with physically accurate light & materials, so we have to begin rethinking how we build "shaders" to account for this. Here is an early sample of a SSS skin shader designed for Octane. This is lit with only the daylight environment in Octane, so it's just sun & sky providing illumination.
I would love to tell you more about new stuff but I am under agreement right now and can't say a word abut the future but hey , you are invited to my forum if you like for deeper octane conversations in the future http://forum.mec4d.com ( just open )
as I am going to limit the places where I talk about stuff in the future to save my time, .. but all I have to say stay tuned up for the new plugin that will be everything you need .. and it is amazing beyond any plugin you ever saw for DS and covering DS3 DS4 and DS4.5
Cath
this plugin, will this be some official octane plugin like the other announced by octane or is this just another developing by some daz lover?
It is from Otoy the owner of Octane and it is Official , you can see preview in my forum also
ah that news sounds nice!
i didn't see anything new on your forum about octance :)
maybe it's just me :)
Cath you really have to think about some more Zbrush vs dazstudio tutorials as your vids are really great for the community here!
think about a great video tutorial for the daz shop! and 'm still curious to your cute voice with the little accents :red:
there are alot of zbrush video's around (gnomon, digitaltutors,....),
but there isn't one that explains the zbrush vs studio proces.
and that part is hard needed here on the community.
Oops my fault, it was under the daz section and not the octane...
Cath
i know i asked it before, but what are your system hardware settings...
you did the octace test runs with?
and what gpu?
I have been an early adopter of Octane for some months now and while it is not perfect yet it is improving with every new build. Much like Reality and Lux in the beginning, you need to take the time to tweak materials as most default materials just aren't suitable as is, for a render engine that works on real world lighting principles. Also much like Reality and Lux though there is a budding community and people can share presets within Octane.
It's new technology but it's stable and it's growing and at $99 I feel it was a bargain as the sheer cut in render times alone makes it worth wile. For the best experience though make sure you have a relatively modern CUDA GFX card with no less than 2GB V-RAM.
Harry Harry .. no comments on that seems like you used a lot but still not know nothing about ..
Kathy Kathy...there's nothing mysterious about Octane although you try to make it sound like it...
I was talking about the plugin that is very mysterious ..
Octane for me is the best engine for rendering .. my personal opinion it is the future
it is simple and simple is beautiful , and I talk with passion and not mysterious :P
that what the programmers did to Poser and DS with the not standard fake materials that works nowhere else ..
you can't get it real so let fake it .. using color maps as bump maps and other nonsense .. this is not 3D art
all global standard maps and materials are translated to Octane based on mtl .. but not all as the programs don;t export them correctly in first place .. that why you need a plugin that will do the job for you, and all you need is putting stuff inside your ds scene and render it in real time without to waiting over night , it is not good enough ? it is already .. a perfect picture each time a magic art button for real
Says you. People go about things different ways and while this(octane) may be the future for you it doesn't negate what everyone else does. Allowing a color map as a bump map was just to make things easier for people, if people want to shortcut let them.
Anyway, I opted to pick up a license and a new video card. If I can get away from using lux I'll be a happy camper. I'll still use 3Delight a ton, its very good at stylized lighting and I do a lot of that. But when I do psuedo realistic stuff not letting things run overnight in lux will be good.
I was rolling around the octane standalone forums and saw some good results with daz characters and the forum seemed to be willing to share settings and knowledge. Thats important to me, I like to read as much as I can from others, use an example to start and tweak from there. I don't expect any 1 click wonders.
It's all "3D art", but if we're talking about realism & physical accuracy (which is the main selling points of engines like Octane & Lux), there are established standards for lighting, photography, & computer graphics, that should be followed in order to easily achieve a "realistic" result. The shader tricks that have been used before aren't needed with these engines (and will often give a poor result), but a basic understanding of what they were being used to accomplish is. Poser & DS in particular have their own bag of tricks that are specific to these programs & in some cases deviate from what would otherwise be considered "standard operating procedure" in any other 3D software. If the user gets the look he or she wants out of it., great! But it still doesn't change the fact that it may not be the "correct" way to get a particular result. Nothing snobby about that at all :-)
I was rolling around the octane standalone forums and saw some good results with Daz characters and the forum seemed to be willing to share settings and knowledge. That's important to me, I like to read as much as I can from others, use an example to start and tweak from there. I don't expect any 1 click wonders.
The beauty of Octane, or Reality/Lux, is that with "one click" we can get much better results out of the box, with little user intervention. You can't get more "Artist Friendly" than that. However, will the results be the best possible image that these render engines can produce? (in other words a "perfect" photoreal render) Likely not, but that is where craft & creativity take over & we as artists can tweak & adjust things to get what is in our mind's eye onto the screen. And when we tweak, we can get consistent results quickly & easily compared to what would be needed in Firefly or DS 3Delight to get the same result. And most importantly the DS artists can now take advantage of a much more universal skill set that has been established in other visual arts for centuries. Light is light, and works the same for the painter, the sculptor, the photographer, and now for the CG artist as well!
I don't care what they use and how they do but they should not complain about something if they don't follow the simple rules of usage , not for nothing different maps was created to deliver different stuff if they keep doing nonsense they will never go anywhere , doing what some of they do don't have any function , still they expecting realistic stuff and as usual blame for it the program .. and not own wrong ways of usage and alternatives , I am to long in this community to take it as for me it is total BS . People need to learn a little bit and that is the reason I say what I say in my preview post .
Bringing alternatives from Poser and DS to octane will not work the way the program was design for , it will make it looking even worse , it is different app with own standard rule so if someone is interested to learn about and use it then go ahead , it is personal choice for everyone as everyone have to find what is best for them to work with and as usual everything take time to learn and feel comfortable with whatever it is . Just because one person do better stuff using one app don;t mean the other is bad, it is about what you can do with , and yes you can create excellent stuff in all apps it is depended of what you create that why I don't limit myself to only one and use them all and each for specific project . I love octane as it speed the work I do for my clients and deliver the most realistic effect in minimum of time that other can not or are to slow , but that is my personal opinion and I am far away from conversation about what is better and what is not ..
and sorry for the reply but you got me started as well :) lol
Looking at Mec4D reply I think it was just a lanuage barrier issue. The original post read very differently that the reply.
Ok I think I understand what you are saying now. I agree people should learn the programs they are using. Your comment seemed like it was talking about Poser or Daz and not about people using other tools incorrectly.
For clarity on my part, when I said let people use color texture maps in bump map I thought you meant in DS or poser. And even in those programs its not the best way to go...
That what the new official plugin for DS would be about Daz friendly with all presets and access to database straight from DS converting lights and materials for the best way , you need to take the time and see it for yourself , I wish I could say more but I can't at this moment but you can trust me on that as it will set up DS in total new light and closer to the realism as ever before , other way it would not make sense .. beside that all the plugin is integrated plugin as the surface or scene tab or dynamic clothing or anime blocks .. so users will feel more at home and don;t have to export and struggle with nodes and material setups or how to operate camera .
yeah I'm waiting for them to wakeup and send me my standalone license since that is needed to use the plugin. I know the plugin isn't ready yet but tinkering in the core program by itself with teach me how much to appreciate the plugin when it is available.
I am not negative at all .. it may sounds like but it is not , forum replies can create wrong illusions .. it is depend of how you take it ..
people use color maps as bump maps in octane to save the memory on older cards , and thanks to that the result are not as good, bump maps or normal maps help to break the reflections to create the correct specular that create the right surface we recognize as realistic and without it the surface will never looks good , bump maps and normal maps are here the most important aspect but also in Poser or Ds no matter real reflection or fake specular .
Octane materials is based on the first old school concept as 3d max or carrara , later the mat gurus tried to create alternative shaders to improve the speed of rendering and giving the end users better results , we go this way until today , but thanks to the modern technology and computers we finally can skip the alternatives and return back to the actual first concept that why entering octane is good to have some background regarding to shader nodes but also an empty cup and think simple way following the nature around us and how the surface behave .. and trust me I still can create more realistic stuff using real reflections in Poser and DS as with fake specular materials , I know people that can setup a scene with a simple stuff and render it in sec and I know people that will mix and make the nodes so clumpy and render on the same speed as regular software as they don't know better thinking it is the way .. but the answer is much more simple as it sounds .. but you know , everyone have own workflow on things they do for so long and sometimes breaking own rules is hard .. but in this case there is not alternative other as starting from zero and build it up in new way
Ok I think I understand what you are saying now. I agree people should learn the programs they are using. Your comment seemed like it was talking about Poser or Daz and not about people using other tools incorrectly.
For clarity on my part, when I said let people use color texture maps in bump map I thought you meant in DS or poser. And even in those programs its not the best way to go...
that is exactly good , if you learn your ways now with the core later would be for you everything more simple as you know exactly what happening and why , but I assume that the usage of future plugin for DS would be so easy as now using material presets and click the button , I did not expected wonders in the beginning as I am always skeptic but i changed my mind after , and beside that everyone will need to own the core to use the plugin so you not waste here money on anything and for the engine $99 is nothing compared to others but the price may change in the future so it will be not so cheap for sure.
I learn everyday about the new stuff and will share all important info and stuff with everyone that would be interested but that would be after the official release as now I can't due to my legal agreement but I just try to give you all a little hope for the sure better tomorrow and if you will not like what is coming you can hate me ... I don't try to sell you anything as I am not paid for that , I just have a passion and as you, I want new better and faster tool to work with and so far it was the best money I spend so far for a rendering app and I spend a lot in the past years for many apps that promised something I could never make true for myself .
I hear what your saying, clear your mind and don't bring in your bad habits. I use a variety of different shaders and then I also use Reality/Lux. Each have their own way of thinking and I don't mind learning another toolset. The reason I'm willing to risk the investment in Octane is that I don't think I'll be starting from nothing since I can leverage some good examples from the a community that is in place.
The octane forums seemed pretty supportive which is what sold me on it.
I only use the diffuse map from any textures i purchase from DAZ.
In octane you can use a marble texture bump map (no raster image), SSS is done with a scattering medium node (no raster image)
The only time i use more than diffuse texture is for a normal map, on an extreme close up.
I think this is an ok render at 20 min. (normal map only on the hair)
no post work, so the color is a bit off, i usually do quite a bit of post in after effects.
That doesn't look 'technically' perfect.
Like I said earlier, the reason why there wasn't much for 'skin' is that there hadn't been much done before.
The idea of using a simple map to provide your colors (diffusion map) and then letting the software handle everything else, on the fly, is very appealing.
I think it's a mistake to try to achieve the perfect render.
The perfect feature film, commercial or advertising image is made by a number of steps usually with very specific program for each step.
the render engine is in the middle, not the end.
And that is one of the biggest mistake made in poserworld in the past!
if those programs would mean something in the 3d industry, they have to follow the big guys the good way or better stop developing.
And that is one of the biggest mistake made in poserworld in the past!
if those programs would mean something in the 3d industry, they have to follow the big guys the good way or better stop developing.
Not sure it was a big mistake if they are making digital art accessible to more people. Considering Poser is still around it probably relates to it's strengths, simply following the "big guys" doesn't work for everyone. It's worked for so long and this GPU rendering stuff is new. I don't think allowing people to make artwork more easily for the last 15 years was a mistake at all.
Not everyone wants to use that "big boy" software either. I think Daz and Poser have their own niche, but it's great that plugins and export options allow them to go a different path if the user wants to.
Whats next..? Vray? Please let that happen LOL. I'm just glad all these render engines are becoming available..So what happens now? Are people going to jump off the reality bandwagon and use this? what are the pros and cons?
I think a few people may choose to switch but I think that part of the decision with be resources. Reality was only $49 dollars for me on sale. Normally $70 I think. It didn't require a great computer, just patience. I was able to get lux network render to work on most of my old computers.
For Octane you need a good Nvidia card, so that cost more than most of my old computers are worth. Frankly I was able to get it to work on my 6 year old 8800gts but the 640mb of memory was limiting. I've read about things you can do to address that but frankly more ram is better.
Since Octane is in beta its 99euros, which is currently 132 USD. That's a sizable increase in price over Reality. Sure its half price right now, but it still a lot more to spend. I'm not saying its not worth it, but money can be a deciding factor especially for people who don't have it to spend.
That's not even getting into the actual plugins themselves, They both seem to have a Online Database of shared materials so that is similiar. I've only looked at the videos for the Daz Octane plugin so I can't speak about it too much. I think it's all hush hush at the moment but the videos they posted on the Octane forums are helpful.
I hate nvidia. I'm more an ATI guy:) Not gonna get me a card just to render.
I said that a few months ago.
And when I said the good Nvidia card was worth more than my old computers I really do mean my old computers. And I chose a video card with 3 gigs of ram. You can get away with 1 gig I hear, but 2 is strongly recommended.
I'm more a gamer, So I ain't stripping out my SLi hd 6450 setup. Plus I hate Nvidia:)