So... is Carrara dead at this point?
TGS808
Posts: 168
I have to say it seems like a dead product. We've been stuck at version 8.5 going on three years with no updates in sight. Is there ever going to be a version 9 (and beyond) or has Daz pretty much stopped developing Carrara all together? It would appear they have. And if they have stopped, have they considered selling it to someone who could/would continue its development? Anyone here (especally someone from Daz) have any input/insight on this? I'm not looking for a guess, I'm looking for an answer. It would be a shame if they let Carrara slip into oblivion like it's predecessors did.
Another question for Mac users....
How does Carrara function under the new OS X, El Capitan? Does it work at all? I've been refraining from updating my OS for a while. I'm still on 10.8.5 (which I think is Mountain Lion) and Carrara functions pefectly. However I'm getting a new Mac in a few days and the new OS X (El Capitan) comes preinstalled so I have pretty much no choice but to use it. Is Carrara going to work or am I going to have to bid it adieu forever? And even if it does work, how much longer can they keep this up? As operating systems (both Mac and Win) progress, at some point (with no further development) Carrara is going to stop working (if it hasn't already).
Thanks.
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Comments
RE: "(if it hasn't already)." There is plenty of visual evidence on this forum and elsewhere that Carrara still works.
RE: "I'm not looking for a guess, I'm looking for an answer." This is a users' forum, not the official blog of Daz staff. We all have guesses. We don't have answers.
RE: "...with no updates in sight." There was a post in another forum in which there was discussion by Daz folks of private testers dealing with adapting Genesis 3 in Carrara. That is more evidence than no evidence that there is some active development of Carrara. But, it is not much more than no evidence.
Carrara is not dead, and won't be dead until the last Carrara user stops using it. I say the same here as I said over in my Fave forum. As long as there is a vibrant Carrara community and evidence that people are still using Carrara, and New Users are still adopting Carrara, then Carrara is alive and kicking, even if sometimes the kicks are a bit feeble. Daz still sponsors the Carrara Render Challege, A Carrara user won the PCI last week.
I just recently upgraded my older Mac Pro to Mac OS 10.11.3 (El Capitan), and Carrara 8.5.1 Pro seems to be working fine for me.
Carrara is fine under El Capitan, mostly. The only real issue I've found is that the "File not found" dialog (if you're opening a project, say, that has a misplaced texture), neglects to tell you the name of the file it is asking you to locate. So it's like a game of blind man's buff in that respect. Usually that only happens to me if I've copied a project onto another machine for testing, and one of the texture maps was in a different folder, so didn't get copied.
Works well under El Capitan for me, too. The occasional thing here or there, but mostly smooth sailing. Just be sure to save your work (shoudl be standard practice anyways) every so often or after any major change. Architools causes a few crashes, but I will see if there is a workflow to reduce that.
It is nice to see lots of Mac users here!
Sorry, but that is ridiculous. People still watch reruns of Friends but it's been off the air since 2004. Just becasue people are using Carrara doesn't make it current, still in development, active software. It just means they (we) are clinging to something that is on life support. People still use Bryce but it is dead (not to mention horribly outdated). The product page for it states, "Bryce 7 Pro is not currently compatible with MacOS 10.7 and above". And it never will be because they stopped developing it. I can't believe they are still selling it. Who runs 10.7 and below??
If the team at Daz have no plans to realease a version 9 (with updated features and updated rendering) and 8.5 is to be the very last version, then Carrara is over. And that was my question. I didn't ask if anyone was still using it. (Clearly they are here but not many other places). I asked if anyone knew if they were going to continue to develop it. My guess, based on what little attention they've given it since they acquired it is that they will not. I don't think we are going to be seeing a version 9 (though I would love to). I think Cararra has come as far as it's going to go and that is a shame. Daz dropped the ball. It seems (based on the email I am inundated with from them on the daily) that all they are interested in is selling digital dolls, digital doll clothes, and digital props to plug into their free Daz Studio.
Edited by Poster
RE: "That doesn't mean it's going to work on anything beyond, that."
Right, there are no assurances of backward compatibility when an OS evolves. That is a general fact, not specific to Carrara.
Thanks. Good to hear it still works (for now). The product page here for Carrara Pro 8.5 says that it will run on Mac OSX 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9 and 10.10. El Capitan is 10.11. As we move on to 10.12, 10.13, 10.14 and beyond, if Carrra still contunies to work it'll be by shear luck. Acutally, I think it's just by shear luck that it still works with 10.10. With no further development to a version 9 and beyond to ensure it will be compatible with the current and future operating systems it is doomed. Without updates it will eventually faill to run or to even install on a future machines.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/944221/#Comment_944221
Edited by poster:
Thanks, Fixmypcmike. I think it is worth copying and pasting the post so people who come across the thread have easy access. Infer what you will.
Jon isn't in a position to make "promises" on behalf of the Software Dev team. Jon [and "Rawb"—also known as "other Rob"] are Web Dev guys. The technical side of Daz Connect (i.e. figuring out how it will work, and then making it work) is a joint effort between the Web Dev and Software Dev teams, at the behest of executive management. The policy side of Daz Connect (i.e. deciding whether it exists at all, and when/what it is applied to) is up to Marketing and executive management.
Is Genesis 3 support being worked on for Carrara? Yes, it is. Will I give you a date on when a build that has Genesis 3 support is going to be publicly available? Sorry, I will not—not yet anyway.
I will say that support for dual quaternion skinning (a prerequisite for Genesis 3 support, and quite useful in its own right) has been implemented and has been with the Private Build testers for several weeks now. Feedback on the feature(s) thus far has been positive. I will also say that earlier this month the Private Build testers were asked what they thought about releasing a build with the dual quaternion skinning support. The responses we got basically boiled down to it not being enough to make much of a difference in the current climate. We [reluctantly] agree, and so decided to hold the feature until Genesis 3 support could be implemented.
And on that note, recently the Private Build testers were given a build that provides their first look at Genesis 3 support. Initial reactions have been positive, however there are a few things that we knew were not working correctly before we gave them the build. We are looking for [and getting] feedback from that team to help us suss out where the other problems are.
As for the question of Daz Connect support in Carrara... It is still a bit too early to commit. I know that is probably not what you want to read/hear, but that is all I can really say about it right now. There are still some things to be ironed out, and dealing with those things in two very complex applications at the same time—particularly with a team that runs on the lean side anyway—would be very unwise. Daz Studio is the proving grounds for Daz Connect integration.
-Rob
Nov - 2015 - thinking its not working
Go ask any manufacturer or software developer to release details of their future product development strategy,
as for selling content, and promoting those sales through emails.
That's what Daz3D does,.(sells content) it's what the DAZ store was built on, long before they had any software for sale,. and it's still the mainstay of thier business.
As for Carrara's development it's ongoing,. and that's been the case since Carrara 7,... it's in constant development. with Public beta testing whenever a release candidate is close to completion.
The other software which Daz owns is also in development.
you want an official statement from the management, simply because you demand it,.. See first line.
Carrara works for me, I use it on a daily basis. I've had some success recently in various contests for short animations and renders.
I had stopped using Carrara because I was having probems importing my models. I am told this is most likely due to Carrara ignoring the vertex smoothing data in the Obj file and then calculating its own avarage values. This makes surfaces look rippled and torn. Does anyone know if there is a way to get Carrara to use the data from the file being imported, or if Daz has or will ever adress this issue?
Since Bryce was mentioned, I would recommend to anyone interested in 3D to look at the Bryce renders being posted every day in the Bryce forum. Many of them are absolutely superb. The individuals who probably have the most expertise are also unfailingly helpful to newcomers and old-hands alike. Anyone using Bryce is living in fortunate times right now no matter how old the program is.
Yeah, I don't think Carrara is anymore "dead" than is Blender or anything else. Consider that many users still produce animation out of CS2, 3 and 4. Those are ancient versions of Flash that will essentially never go outdated because people simply like to use them.
Asking "is Carrara dead?" is, to me, akin to asking "Is paper and pencil dead?" Carrara is simply a tool that people use. I use Carrara consistently in all of my animations. I have no interest in using any other product in the foreseeable future.
But remember that Carrara serves a very specific market, namely indie animators. Animation students are most like learning their trade in Maya, 3Ds, etc. Carrara isn't necessarily the best program to learn for someone who wants to work for a professional animation studio. Carrara is *very* good for the low budget indie creator, which is why it has my full support.
But even if they never updated it...ever...I would still be using it, because it provides me with what I need.
who needs updates?
Hi Keith
Could you possibly start another thread about this issue,. because i've never found problems importing obj models
Also,. where are these objects coming from,. (what software) ,. are you makuing these ?,. or are they models you've bought.?
have you checked the surface normals in the original software?
have you tried opening these models in any other software,. and does that work ?
need more info about this to help,. and screenshots of the models and the results of opening these in carrara.
lastly,. why not make your models in Carrara,. ...saves importing
Andy.
Edited to add :
Since most poser and Daz3d models are supplied in OBJ format, and load into carrara without issue,. it seems strange that you're having issues with OBJ import.
I'd like to help you figure out why this is happening,.., and get you using Carrara again, :)
Agreed. But from what I've seen in demo work at animation schools, the students are expected to create their own characters from scratch. Certainly a valid part of their education and probably required by any animation studio. But ... I have no desire to do that (or work in the industry), preferring to use the vast number of Poser format characters and variations, plus the associated hair, clothing, etc., to create short animations telling a story. Carrara is ideal for me, seamlessly handling most Poser content and having much better animation tools than Poser itself.
Me neither. I rather concentrate on telling stories than create characters from scratch. Daz sells plenty of good characters. I know it takes a lot of skill to create characters, but to animate them with a good story is another matter.
Hi 3DAGE
I'm sorry if I posted in the wrong thread. I posted here because it seemed a good place to find out if carrara would be developed in future. The issue I have is illustrated in this thread if ayone is interested.
I just wondered if there would be any future development of Carrara and if part of that development would enable me to use my models. They work fine in Keyshot and Simlab.
As for Carrara being dead, it would be a shame to lose it as its fun to use and very versatile. That said for many projects Simlab is quicker and easier to use and the render is superior.
Hey Keith
Carrara can only understand simplified OBJ format
Hi FifthElement :)
is that something like hexagon where you need to collapse dynamic elements | Simlpified obj would be an undynamic fixed model.
Those that need updates, can join in on the beta testing of OctaneRender 3.0 plugin for Carrara:
https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=52012
Or LuxusCore plugin for Carrara:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50130/
Both bring a long list of new features for Carrara.
I do not think so.
Simplified OBJ format is just a basic version of complex OBJ format specification (see here: http://www.martinreddy.net/gfx/3d/OBJ.spec).
Carrara's OBJ importer is ignoring all more advanced features of the OBJ format, including individual vertex normals direction (except their orientation).
Vertex normals are averaged by importer with no option to skip it or do it later ... I guess that's beeing done for that "automatic" smooth look everybody wants, allegedly
Strangely enough, when imported model has mismatched normals orientation, invert normals tool actually puts them all in the same direction (besides reversing them)
I don't suppose that Daz is in any hurry to change the way normals are supported (or not supported really) as its the same in Daz Studio. Seems a bit of a shame. Curiously Carrara Pro supports importing nurbs models and does exactly the same thing, which to my mind negates the advantage of being able to import them in the first place.
I like your work FifthElement.
3DAGE, I will still use Carrara but it has become harder for me to use it for the things I would like to do. I think Blender has been supporting vertex data since last year so it should be possible for Daz to do this in Carrara.
Thanks Guy's
I try to learn someting new every day :)
would smoothing fix this?