Having problems accessing a Bryce product after installing

Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

OK, calling all Bryce gurus. This is the first time in all the years I ever worked in Bryce that I came across a product I can't access from within Bryce after installing it.

The product is Bijan's Realistic Terrain For Bryce 012.

When I unzipped the file, there was a Content folder (for installation through DIM) with a Presets folder containing another folder titled Bijan Studio. Inside the Bijan Studio folder is a JPG file (probably a thumbnail), and the Real Terrain for Bryce 012.pgm file. I'm not familiar with files with a .pgm extension. What is it, and how do I use it?

I'd greatly appreciate any ideas as to what I can do with this. Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited December 1969

    I'm not familiar with the product, neither with the PGM file format. However, as I understand, you can copy the PGM files wherever you want, they are not native to Bryce and need not be in any particular folder.

    You access the terrains with File > Import Object > PGM Files (about halfway down in the file type list). I presume that the material image overlay is loaded at the same time. Once you have your terrain, you can save it in tne Objects Library (at least I think so).

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 643
    edited December 1969

    The PGM file it from the GeoControl2 program specially for Bryce. It has high resolution for the card of heights for Bryce in shades of gray 16 bits. After import to Bryce it gains property of the terrain. As a rule, the terrain size in Bryce after import needs to be reduced twice as usual Bryce the district has resolution of 8 bits. If you edit the terrain in TE, the map of heights will turn (alas! ) in usual 8 bits.
    JPG files it likely textures for terrain. You can not use them if you want. Instead, you can assign a procedural texture from library of Bryce.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited April 2014

    Ah, thanks for the tip, Alex. So PGM stands for Portable Grey Map. The way to get it as 16-bit into Bryce would be through the Terrain Editor. Use the Picture button from the Elevation tab, not the Picture tab (that one only loads 8 bit). However, I don't see the PGM file-spec in the list.

    It could be converted in Photoshop, which accepts PGM, and can save as 16-bit greyscale TIFF - which Bryce imports into the TE.

    If I had an example file, I could write a converter and add it to the TIFF4816 program that is available for free on my website (Bryce Documents > Programs > Terrain). But with only file description I cannot test whether I did it right.

    EDIT: Cool, Photoshop can export to 16-bit greyscale PGM. So I'll go about adding that converter to the program.

    Post edited by Horo on
  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,640
    edited April 2014

    Miss B

    If you’re not sure in how to get the pgm/tiff 16-bit file into Bryce, here’s how it’s done (apologies, if you already know how).

    (1) Insert a terrain (Terrain icon) into Bryce.
    (2) Click on the E attribute (as Horo says) of the terrain.
    (3) Click on Pictures tab.
    (4) Click Load on the left-most box (from where you find your file).
    (5) Do the same again for the middle box.
    (6) Click apply (and then the arrow at right of screen).

    Sorry, again, if you already know this, but I’m going from your Renderosity site where you seem to have only a few, what looks like the normal Bryce terrain.

    Jay

    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 643
    edited December 1969

    I wanted to specify that after import PGM file into Bryce, it is necessary to reduce it on height twice (axis Y).

  • SlepalexSlepalex Posts: 643
    edited December 1969

    Horo, as you have said PGM file can be loaded only from the command File> Import Object> PGM Files.

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited December 1969

    Thanks muchly guys. I had no idea how to use this, but now that the TE and height maps were mentioned, I think I have an idea of what it's for. :coolsmile:

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited April 2014

    Jamahoney said:
    Miss B

    If you’re not sure in how to get the pgm/tiff 16-bit file into Bryce, here’s how it’s done (apologies, if you already know how).

    (1) Insert a terrain (Terrain icon) into Bryce.
    (2) Click on the E attribute (as Horo says) of the terrain.
    (3) Click on Pictures tab.
    (4) Click Load on the left-most box (from where you find your file).
    (5) Do the same again for the middle box.
    (6) Click apply (and then the arrow at right of screen).

    Sorry, again, if you already know this, but I’m going from your Renderosity site where you seem to have only a few, what looks like the normal Bryce terrain.

    Jay


    Thanks Jay, but those Bryce renders in my Renderosity gallery are from back when I first started with Bryce, circa version 4 and then version 5 when I was doing tutorials from the old Peter Sharpe site. I hadn't used Bryce for a number of years until I got back into it beginning of last year when I finally installed Bryce 7 on my current laptop.

    This is a terrain I created in Terragen last year and imported into Bryce shortly after installing it  -->
    http://3dpixelzone.com/WIP/bryce/terrain1.htm

    Still not an expert by any means, but I've come a long way from those old Bryce renders. I was just installing a bunch of bryce items last nite, and this .pgm file totally threw me as I had never come across it before. Now I have an idea of what it is, I'll be able to use it. :coolsmile:

    I guess I should update my Renderosity gallery as well. :coolsmirk:

    Post edited by Miss B on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 29,709
    edited December 1969

    Miss B said:
    Jamahoney said:
    Miss B

    If you’re not sure in how to get the pgm/tiff 16-bit file into Bryce, here’s how it’s done (apologies, if you already know how).

    (1) Insert a terrain (Terrain icon) into Bryce.
    (2) Click on the E attribute (as Horo says) of the terrain.
    (3) Click on Pictures tab.
    (4) Click Load on the left-most box (from where you find your file).
    (5) Do the same again for the middle box.
    (6) Click apply (and then the arrow at right of screen).

    Sorry, again, if you already know this, but I’m going from your Renderosity site where you seem to have only a few, what looks like the normal Bryce terrain.

    Jay


    Thanks Jay, but those Bryce renders in my Renderosity gallery are from back when I first started with Bryce, circa version 4 and then version 5 when I was doing tutorials from the old Peter Sharpe site. I hadn't used Bryce for a number of years until I got back into it beginning of last year when I finally installed Bryce 7 on my current laptop.

    This is a terrain I created in Terragen last year and imported into Bryce shortly after installing it  -->
    http://3dpixelzone.com/WIP/bryce/terrain1.htm

    Still not an expert by any means, but I've come a long way from those old Bryce renders. I was just installing a bunch of bryce items last nite, and this .pgm file totally threw me as I had never come across it before. Now I have an idea of what it is, I'll be able to use it. :coolsmile:

    I guess I should update my Renderosity gallery as well. :coolsmirk:

    Or start a new Gallery here, now we have galleries again.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited December 1969

    Program is updated to convert 16-bit Portable Grey Map (PGM) to Bryce TE compatible 16-bit greyscale TIFF. I need yet to check whether I've broken 24, 48 and 96 bit TIFF and 96-bit HDRI in the process and update the documentation. Should be done by tomorow.

    Importing 16-bit TIFF into the TE gives the better result than loading the PGM via File > Import Object and reducing the height, as Alex explains, is not necessary.

    Jay's tip works but loading from the Picture tab instead of the Elevation tab reduces the image to 8 bit and you end up with steps.

  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,640
    edited April 2014

    ...but loading from the Picture tab instead of the Elevation tab reduces the image to 8 bit...

    Horo, you're probably right, but whenever I use 16-bit DTMs (Digital Terrain Models - essentialy, greyscale elevation files like the PGMs), I normally go through the 'Pictures' tab, where the 16-bit resolution isn't lost (twice). Perhaps, the confusion is due to that both options work, and are capable of maintaining the 16-bit rez (all I can say is that I use the 'Pictures' tab always, which maintaiins the 16-bit data there-in).

    Miss B sorry, obviously, you know from your old terrains that the above suggestions weren't much help. No worries, the details can sometimes become lost during communications.

    Jay

    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited December 1969

    @Jay - I see. I've got to take your word for it. If you use 16-bit grey scale TIFFs, only the one from the Elevation tab retains the 16 bits. I have only tested with TIFFs.

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Miss B said:
    I guess I should update my Renderosity gallery as well. :coolsmirk:

    Or start a new Gallery here, now we have galleries again.
    I know Pam, but I'm not that crazy about the galleries here. Then again, I wasn't crazy about the old ArtZone personal galleries either. Maybe some day. What I really need to do is update the gallery on my own site. It's sorely missing a lot of renders I've done over the past few years.
  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 1,640
    edited April 2014

    Horo...you are most certainly right...it seems to work for your Elevatoin Tab/Picture Botton route in that one has less buttons to push in the end.

    I've never done it that way as I was so used to going down the Picture Tab option, where more buttons have to be 'pushed' in the end. The result, from what I gathered, is the same, so will defintely use your more simpler route from now on.

    I recall reading one time that website developers gain more credance and 'hits' when they have less buttons, less mouse movements, less clicks involved (and so, more orders...etc., of items come in). It's an important point that many fail to observe - well worth noting these days in our ever, overly use of tech.,...and credit cards ;)

    Miss B...no probs...you should see some of my old submissions a long time ago on another site.

    Jay

    Post edited by Jamahoney on
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited April 2014

    OK, just playing around, and I'm not necessarily "happy" with it, but there was a really nice groove in the terrain that just begged for water in the foreground. Of course I really should find a better texture for it, as those horizontal lines across the terrain looks silly, but just for fun I thought I'd post it here in any case.

    I'm definitely going to have to play with this some more.

    Be sure to click to see unsquished.

    pgm2.jpg
    1000 x 700 - 127K
    Post edited by Miss B on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited April 2014

    @Jay - yes, I experimented a bit and found that if the 16-bit TIFF is loaded into both slots (not copy/paste) it looks right.

    @Miss B - looks nice, I like the water. The terrain is very angular as if it were very low resolution.

    I finished updating the conversion program and the doc. 16-bit PMGs can be converted into 16-bit TIFFs, which can be loaded in the TE. It's free if anyone is interested it can be found on my website. Go to Bryce Documents > Programs > Terrain > TIFF4816.

    EDIT - oh dear. I purchased that terrain and see that a very ancient PGM type is used that not even Photoshop can read correctly. So I have to get back to my program and add that option as well.

    EDIT (again): I should have thought that Bryce uses the old PGM format. My mistake. Program is now updated and handles both PGM types. The advantage of conversion is the much smaller file size and it can be imported directly into the PE.

    Post edited by Horo on
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for doing that Horo. I'm going to go download the file and play with it.

    I agree with you about the low res on the terrain. I wasn't crazy about it, but I thought I'd just render it and see how it came out. Maybe with your little app I'll be able to produce something better. :coolsmile:

  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited April 2014

    OK, this is definitely better, but I'm still not thrilled with it. It looks like some giant alien clawed out a chuck of the terrain. It's those vertical grooves I'm not crazy about. I may play with rotating it around to see if I can see something better. Then again, I could always add some stepped waterfalls to hide them. :coolsmirk:

    One thing I have to say, the grey-scaled TIFF your little app created rendered sooooo much quicker than the PGM I original tried.

     

    PGM3.jpg
    1000 x 600 - 135K
    Post edited by Miss B on
  • HoroHoro Posts: 6,300
    edited December 1969

    @Miss B - thank you. Loading the PGM creates a 4096 x 4096 terrain. If you create a terrain from the Create-shelf you get one with the default resolution of 512 x 512. This is indeed much faster but has a much lower resolution. In the TE, click on the grid shown at left in the image below to open the resolution selection. Select the desired resolution before you click on Picture to load the TIFF. Also disable Smooth. Using Planetary Resolution makes the TE very slow. A high resolution terrain make also the render a bit longer. The shorter render time you report is due to the resolution set, not my modest converter.

    Most of the time, I use 1024 massive resolution and seldom 2048 gigantic. I use the full resolution almost never, though I used it here Show Us Your Bryce Renders! Part 7, page 11 to test the converted image. The nearer you move the camera to a part of the terrain, the higher the resolution should be. However, the material applied makes a difference, too.

    TE-Resolution.jpg
    823 x 568 - 78K
  • Miss BMiss B Posts: 3,068
    edited April 2014

    DUUUUUUUH!! :headdesk:

    I have done that before but totally forgot this time. OK, going to go try it out now. Thanks for the reminder Horo.

    Edited to Add: OMG, I just checked out that render you posted in the Bryce Renders thread. That's amazing. Now I'm really stoked to play with this. Thanks muchly for your help, it's greatly appreciated.

    Post edited by Miss B on
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