Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female a post from the PA

MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
edited June 2013 in The Commons

Here's the why:

I did the product as a PA, because it wasn't going to exist otherwise. I hope I did what is ultimately felt to be a better version of those elements, UV's which perform better for detail position and sizing, a clone which performs better, and a character shape which is a little more accurate than it's 5th generation equivalent. I also attempted to price it reasonably; which right now is about 10$ when factoring in the intro discount.

For example, look at this case of the A4 School Girl shoes converted by both; and I'm showing the actual mesh here with no smoothing modifier to hide anything.

What's good about this being a PA product?

Updates. If there is a problem I will fix it. Someone posted that they saw an issue with nipple alignment, it was slight but I agreed, fixed it immediately, and the update is already at DAZ. If there are problems, and I know about them, they will be fixed if it's within my power to do so, and you as the customer get an update.

Why do the old MATs not work?

This has been explained in more detail in other places, but the short of it is this; old presets don't support applying to the new Genesis 2 Female material setup. The solution is a workaround of applying the textures to Victoria 4, and then saving out a new Material Preset, specifically in DUF format, to apply later to your Genesis 2 Female characters. When you apply the preset, you then simply have to switch all materials to use the Victoria 4 UV set under Surfaces. note: I say to save from Victoria 4 herself, because she has the material for the eye reflections to carry over, and Genesis 1 does not. In all other respects however, saving the preset from Genesis 1 would work as well

Making that new preset only has to be done once. Again, this is something that was out of my control. If I could have the existing presets work I would. However, there have also been shader advances since many of these presets were made. For example; in the ad images for G2FV4C, when saving presets for the Lana and Maya textures to render with, I added the SSS base and effect to them. So making yourself new presets, is not always a bad thing.

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Post edited by MallenLane on
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Comments

  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 727
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the heads up. :)

    Kat

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Those shoes do look better. Thanks for explaining the situation.

    I think the important thing for people to remember is the first thing you said. It wasn't going to happen at all, but now at least if we find value in this we have a choice.

  • SassyWenchSassyWench Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    Thanks MallenLane :) It was the first (and only) thing in my cart besides the morphs. And it works great! Much appreciated. :)

  • jakkujakku Posts: 91
    edited June 2013

    Thanks

    That was fast!

    I want you to know that I am extremely grateful that you have made this product.

    I have edited my original post explaining the fix.

    Post edited by jakku on
  • StorypilotStorypilot Posts: 1,556
    edited December 1969

    Really appreciate the explanation of the situation, MallenLane, and your extra work in maintaining the product to a higher standard. Thank you.

  • jerhamjerham Posts: 133
    edited December 1969

    First off all thank you for the explanation, just bought it because i found out (after buying the bundle) that G2/V6 did not support v4 clothes with auto fit.

    Alos maybe you could suggest to DAZ, that they put a link in the V6 product description to you're product!

    From the V6 product description:

    Victoria 6 will work great with any of your Genesis 2 female content, as well as many of your go-to favorites from the other Victoria’s by making use of the “auto fit” tool.

    Compatibility
    Due to consistency of key body parts and shapes, such as feet, users are able to utilize content and accessories intended not only for Genesis 2 females, but to also leverage their Genesis content through the “auto fit” process. Additionally, due to the ability to go directly from a female base to another female base, the auto fit process for Victoria 4 content has also been improved.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 6,043
    edited December 1969

    jerham said:
    From the V6 product description:

    Victoria 6 will work great with any of your Genesis 2 female content, as well as many of your go-to favorites from the other Victoria’s by making use of the “auto fit” tool.

    Compatibility
    Due to consistency of key body parts and shapes, such as feet, users are able to utilize content and accessories intended not only for Genesis 2 females, but to also leverage their Genesis content through the “auto fit” process. Additionally, due to the ability to go directly from a female base to another female base, the auto fit process for Victoria 4 content has also been improved.

    Obviously this refers to all the other Victorias that occurred BETWEEN Victoria 5 and Victoria 6. You know: Victoria 5 & 7/8 and Victoria 6 minus .5.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,539
    edited December 1969

    Havn't bought any Gen 2 stuff and won't until next year but I just wanted to say I wish more PA's were like you. Great post and the shoes do look good.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 6,043
    edited December 1969

    What's good about this being a PA product?

    I would think the answer to that would be self evident. You obviously care about the end consumer and delivering a quality product and customer service, for which I can only say think you. Prior to reading this, I was 90% sure I was going to buy just this product and lhe evolution morphs as my first venture into Genesis two. Now it's 100%. Thanks!
  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,055
    edited December 1969

    Mallen Lane, I thank you for your intervention and making it for us.

    it is telling though that Daz did not think this was essential....

    Glad to see that you have customer needs at heart. We <3 you and the day that Daz no longer has you will be a very bleak day indeed.</p>

  • NyalaNyala Posts: 5
    edited June 2013

    I load an skin on V4 and save it as "Material Preset" and then I load the preset to the gen 2. Correct?

    Post edited by Nyala on
  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,303
    edited November 2013

    edited and removed by user

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited December 1969

    You need to switch the surfaces to use Victoria 4 as the UV set. It will be at the top of the Surface panel. Just select them all and switch it.

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    Is only the DIM version updated or are the standalone installer versions updated too? I can see that the DIM version is updated, but the stand alone installers still read as 1.0. So I'm not sure if those got updated.too.

    Thanks for the update, this was the first item I put in my cart this morning.

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 828
    edited December 1969

    For what it is worth, I am very happy that you took on this product and I know that you deliver quality work and keep on fixing issues / improving things quickly *smiles*

    If it weren't for your product (and another, certain product that is promised to arrive *winks* ), I wouldn't even have thought of getting Genesis 2 in the first place. I hope DAZ knows what you did here for them as well.

    Thank you again *smiles*

    P.S.: Replaced all the broken emotes with written emotes, otherwise this post would've looked silly *laughs*

  • Dino GrampsDino Gramps Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you MallenLane. I will buy your product if I decide to work with G2F. If DAZ would communicate as you did, it would have been a done deal by now. Unfortunately, I can only go by what I see, and I see a product rushed out, and marketed in a way to squeeze the last penny out of it's customers. As an example, the Pro Bundle does not include the head and body morphs needed to use the characters included in the bundle, and the promo doesn't even list them as a requirement. Another telling fact is, "it wasn’t going to exist otherwise." That is the attitude I've been sensing from DAZ over the G2F & V6 release.

    So, if hell freezes over and DAZ comes out with a good explanation, or even better yet a remedy to it's faulty roll-out of G2F and V6, your product will be in my cart immediately.

  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited December 1969

    Both of them should be updated I think.

  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited December 1969

    Well, I actually mesh modeled, rigged, and did the base shape and the extended morph sets of Genesis 2 Female. I'm a contractor with DAZ, and I work within the specifications and timeline I'm given. I also was the primary designer of, and modeled the Genesis 1 product. But I'm not marketing and I don't control bundles etc. The V4 Clone product was something I did on my off hours and weekends.

    People have a lot of questions surrounding decisions made about how Genesis 2 works and why the change, and I understand that. I can't really directly answer them though, because it's not my place to do so. There are a lot of benefits to having specificity at times, and those benefits are obvious to many, clearly, but they might not be to someone who simply wants flexibility at all cost. And Genesis 1 is flexibility at all cost.

    I could sit here and go into an extremely long post of observations as a figure designer about why the change makes sense, about what it brings to the table for what it sacrifices; none of that is going make you feel any better about lost flexibility, if that's primarily what appeals to you. I can tell you, it's not all about making more money.

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 68
    edited December 1969

    How would this work in Poser? Is the process of switching UVs and material setups compatible? I think I am still missing some of the steps. Thank you!

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    Thanks,

    I just updated that on the Genesis & Genis 2 list and noted that the version number wasn't changed on the standalone installers.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    There are a lot of benefits to having specificity at times, and those benefits are obvious to many, clearly, but they might not be to someone who simply wants flexibility at all cost.
    Well, currently I see more people who still ask the question what G2F actually improves. I'm curious myself because I don't see anything gender-specific that benefits G2F and justifies gender-split.

    it's not all about making more money.


    Can we have then have improved V4 autofit for original Genesis, please?
  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited June 2013

    Kattey said:
    There are a lot of benefits to having specificity at times, and those benefits are obvious to many, clearly, but they might not be to someone who simply wants flexibility at all cost.
    Well, currently I see more people who still ask the question what G2F actually improves. I'm curious myself because I don't see anything gender-specific that benefits G2F and justifies gender-split.

    it's not all about making more money.


    Can we have then have improved V4 autofit for original Genesis, please?

    That I'm not entirely sure of. It couldn't replace the existing one, I know that. It would break things that rely on it being exactly the way it is now. Clones are not as easy as they may sound to make. Every movement on the clone's mesh translates to movement in the item it's bringing across, so it can honestly end up an exercise in point by point move and test in places to get things working... What I'm saying is that it's not just something I can whip up out of thin air.

    Post edited by MallenLane on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited June 2013

    Actually there is an additional Autofit for V4 that exists alongside with default V4 autofit and works with all default Genesis Projection templates as well even if the difference is noticeable only in breast area. So two autofits of same shape are possible.
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/55187/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Genesis-Autofit-correction-for-V4-clothing
    Maybe we can have something like that even if only for shoes because shoes are the biggest problem ever? Although full better autofit would be very nice too.
    And I don't ask it to be free, understandably this is your time and effort.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • willowfanwillowfan Posts: 202
    edited December 1969

    I must say I'm mightily impressed with the V4 autofit part of this package.

    As a test I tried a V4 outfit that includes high spike heeled boots (that are completely mangled trying to autofit to Genesis/V5) and they came across perfectly - all I needed to do was hide the toes of G2/V6.

  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited June 2013

    Hooo ... I guess I should've stayed behind the curtain... >_>

    Again, I can't answer these things directly, and possibly should've kept more quiet in general. But I will give a perspective on something.

    Hitomi. she has something like 200+ correctives to make her completely work; that was a whole lot of effort. And in some degrees invisible effort; you would know if it wasn't there because things would look very wrong, but you wouldn't know it was there, because it just appeared to "work". Part of the "magic" of Genesis was a ton of that invisible work; and even still you didn't get exactly what you wanted always.

    Making her clothing, was... difficult; not impossible, but definitely more work than I felt like was entirely practical. I began sacrificing some details in order to make it more workable/manageable. There is a broad distance to cover between the Genesis base, and a lot of these extreme shapes, and the detail just sometimes doesn't make it across so well. And other content makers have had to do the same thing at times; lower detail in areas and ways to get the flexibility to work. It's really difficult to describe the inherent differences that are between the bell curve shapes of a female breast, and a flat pectoral, and how they function in 3D space as a movement. Morphing and rigging across those two shapes is complicated, and that complication ends up in everything.

    Just as a small example, of how rigging for the female shape is superior.. breast movement. In the image shows moving them together with joints. Genesis, having been rigged on a flat chest, doesn't work so well on the females, being meant to be a mid-range approach; and the alternative is obvious. I could go through and show many examples of where that is true.

    I am not going to sit here and knock Genesis all day in forum posts. From a technical stand point of flexibility, it's a good design, I still think. However, when it comes to a case where you want a specifically good "something" - and I mean details and posing made entirely towards a target (in this case female) - Genesis is not competitive against G2F.

    And again, as I stated before, none of this is going to sway you, if flexibility means more to you than anything else.

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  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,041
    edited December 1969

    Does G2F make use of the new edge weights supported by OpenSubDiv?

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,935
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    Does G2F make use of the new edge weights supported by OpenSubDiv?

    Definitely better edges around the breast area in the images above.

    Thanks for the explanation Mallen.


    Am I correct in assuming that having both models will give us more options to choose from rather than being mutually exclusive. For example gen2 female is not a replacement for genesis but an additional tool in the work box?

    I personally love the flexibly of the original figure but I can see where I might also wish to use something that provides superior detailing.

  • The Vertex DoctorThe Vertex Doctor Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    I am glad you didn't stay behind the curtain Mallen.

    Looking at the example of the breasts you posted I am also taking this to mean that when we get Genesis 2 Male, we wont have to sometimes deal with, what I like to call "flat breasts" on men. You know, looks fine in the viewport straight on but in a render mostly from the side and sometimes from the front depending on lighting, it sometimes looks as if my males took a wee hit of estrogen.

  • Geminii23Geminii23 Posts: 1,236
    edited December 1969

    I would love to see more examples of V4 clothing working on Genesis 2. Getting V4 clothes to work on Genesis has always been problematic for me.

    If this new plugin works well I will be grabbing it right away!

    Thanks.

  • MallenLaneMallenLane Posts: 128
    edited December 1969

    I am glad you didn't stay behind the curtain Mallen.

    Looking at the example of the breasts you posted I am also taking this to mean that when we get Genesis 2 Male, we wont have to sometimes deal with, what I like to call "flat breasts" on men. You know, looks fine in the viewport straight on but in a render mostly from the side and sometimes from the front depending on lighting, it sometimes looks as if my males took a wee hit of estrogen.

    Exactly so. You don't have to make rather significant compromises as much to make/force it all to work together.

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